Lithium CO2 - the future of EV's?

Discussion in 'General' started by BlueKonaEV, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    So, I read up on the first rechargable Li/CO2 battery which is carbon neutral. That technology promises 7x the energy density of a Li/Ion battery. If I'm understanding this correctly, this could mean that a size battery pack that is currently good for 300 miles, such size battery pack could go 2100 miles on a charge on a Li/CO2 pack??? If this is true, this could be the future of electric vehicles. I have not seen any documentation on charging time but even if it charges slower than current batteries, if you get 2100 mile range, it would be fairly irrelevant..
    Am I missing something or is it possible that those type of batteries are the future of EV's?

    https://newatlas.com/electronics/first-rechargeable-carbon-dioxide-battery/
     
  2. Esprit1st

    Esprit1st Well-Known Member

    Well, do you really need a car that goes 2000 miles? I doubt it. It's more likely that a smaller battery pack would be used, around 300-400 miles.

    Reasons for that would be weight and efficiency and also charge times. If it takes 7x longer to recharge, what are you going to do for 3 days without a car if you run out of charge at home? Or would you wait 7 hours at the McDonald's to get a full charge at the fast charger?

    Most likely the battery would never be fully used.
    So yes, possibly a great technology but I'd never expect much longer ranges than what we have already. At least not for personal transportation.

    Now trucks, trains, boats ... Different story

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
  3. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    No word yet on charging time.. if it is similar to Lithium/Polymer, it would be a great option.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member

    Hi,

    Battery research is wonderful but getting product from lab to field is difficult. By all means, follow the technology but I have two EVs in-hand and have operational experience to share:
    • Town-only car - it really doesn't matter. You charge at home, maybe at work, or free chargers from merchants who want your business.
    • General purpose car - now fast DC charging is the critical feature. For example my Tesla Model 3.
    This is the fast DC charging curve for my Standard Range Plus Model 3:
    [​IMG]
    • 100 kW in 15 minutes gives 120 miles at 65 mph, about 120 minutes of driving.
    • In 30 minutes it gives 190 miles at 65 mph, about 190 minutes of driving.
    • How big are your bladders?
    Charging rate and efficiency on the road determines how practical an EV is combined with a national charging network with properly spaced chargers. The Tesla SuperCharger network has a 150 mi range from pretty much any spot in the USA although some routes are challenging.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    In order for the general public to buy EV's, charging time needs to be cut and range needs to be longer and charging needs to be faster. In the US, EV's only account for a small percentage of all cars sold for those reasons. If the Lithium CO2 technology can be adapted for EV use, it would be a good step into the right direction so that the general public will be more interested in EV's. 200 to 300 mile range won't cut it for mass demand when you can get ICE cars or hybrids that can go 500 miles on a tank. I hope that solid state batteries or CO2 battery technology will soon be available in cars to significantly increase demand.
     
  6. Esprit1st

    Esprit1st Well-Known Member

    Not saying you're not correct. I'm all up for better battery technology. However, I doubt the reason for people not buying EVs is range or charging times.

    The reason is that they are uneducated. They are being told that charging takes 50 hours at home and that the car goes only 200 miles.

    That is not wrong but it's also not true. People don't realize that they can charge over night and that they don't drive more than 50 miles per day.

    They also don't realize that they have to stop for a bathroom break anyways. Granted, it will be a little longer than with an ice car, but it's already not much longer than that.

    For the majority of people a current EV is more than enough to do 90% of their driving. If you need that last 10% you could rent a car for cheaper than owning an ICE car.

    But again, nobody educated. There is national drive electric week and I've been to two of those events and people have no idea about EVs.

    Dealers don't do it because of less incentives for them to sell an EV.

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  7. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    Some people may not be educated on the subject but many people are aware of the actual charging times but consider them to be too long..
     
  8. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Active Member

    LI-CO2 Battery
    First, this is only a prototype in a lab. As Bob @bwilson4web points out, getting it out of the lab into mass production is a pretty arduous process and there is no guarantee it will be commercialized in the next 4-6 years. There are some issues that I can see today and hopefully there could be a solution. This battery needs a supply of CO2 and if were to be used in a car, how do store and supply the CO2 to the battery. Do you need a separate CO2 holding tank, if so how are you going to refuel that. Second, the battery chemistry requires a catalyst to ensure that that Carbon residue can be recycled, rather that just degrade battery life. MIT researchers could get only a few cycles of recharging, the U of Illinois team increased it to 500 times using a catalyst. Catalyst's may not be cheap. So overall I am not sure if the cost economics will work out. We also do not know what the charging times are? And if the battery density is comparable with today's battery. It may produce 7 times more power but if it weighs twice as much, the advantages is smaller.

    So I would not get my hopes up that this technology is around the corner. I have been reading about this and I do not see any one predicting that it is the answer to battery range yet.
     
  9. Esprit1st

    Esprit1st Well-Known Member

    @BlueKonaEV I think you're wrong. It is uneducated people. I know because I talked to these people at those events. Once you explain to them how you/I charge they understand that it's actually not that big of an issue. So that's the issue, not the charging itself. And again, yes, for some people it might/is an issue. But so far pretty much every person I've talked to falls into the category of uneducated people.

    @interestedinEV Yes, it's going to take a while until we have significant better batteries than we currently have. And what kind of technology, solid state or something else.

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