Lane Keep Assist question/observations

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by loomis2, Jun 15, 2018.

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  1. loomis2

    loomis2 Well-Known Member

    On my vacation drive I had LKA on throughout the entire journey and I have two observations:

    1. The warning to put your hands back on the wheel seems to come on at random intervals. Sometimes it is 30 seconds, but other times it was much sooner than that. I couldn't figure out a reason for it.

    2. When it tells you to put you hands back on the wheel it also turns off LKA, which seems dangerous. If the reason you don't have your hands on the wheel is an emergency it seems like turning off LKA would just make everything much worse. Slow down and turn on the hazard lights if you must after a set time, but LKA should be on until that car comes to a complete stop.

    3. The interval between physically touching the wheel should be much longer, like 2 or 3 minutes, especially on straight stretches of road. Maybe instead of requiring you to touch the wheel it should put up a message asking if you are paying attention and you can say Yes and you are good for another few minutes. That may end up being just as annoying, though.
    Daniel M W likes this.
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  3. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

  4. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    LKA definitely isn't good enough for hands free in any area, I have seen numerous times it turns off with no warning if stripes aren't very bright or if sun is hitting the camera.

    It really is designed to always have your hands on the wheel at the same time acting as an assistant that might catch you drifting from a lane.

    I agree it needs to be better at failing gracefully by bringing the car gracefully to a stop. As it is it would drive you right off the road.
  5. vicw

    vicw Active Member

    While I love using the Adaptive Cruise Control feature on the Clarity, I don't have the confidence in LKA to remove my hands from the wheel. I used it extensively for the first time a couple of days ago, with good road conditions; clean lane striping, clear daytime and mid-day. It was OK for most of the drive, but on one occasion it failed to respond to a gentle left curve in the hiway, enough that the car went slightly over the right-hand striping, before I corrected.

    I also haven't figured out how the hand sensing works. I usually keep them more or less at the 10/2 positions. If I just keep my hands around the wheel, without squeezing the wheel, my arms get tired pretty fast. I feel like it would be less work just to steer normally, without any assist.
  6. ClarityDoc

    ClarityDoc Active Member

    Wow, you take your hands of the wheel? I hope I'm no where nearby. I like my Clarity's' LKA, with a light continuous touch.
    KenG likes this.
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  8. vicw

    vicw Active Member

    Not me - I didn't mean to infer that. I'm just trying to figure out how the hand/wheel sensing operates.
  9. loomis2

    loomis2 Well-Known Member

    I did take my hands off the wheel. It was pretty much perfect conditions for it. Light traffic and well-maintained highway with clear markings. It was easy to just sit there with my hands on my lap watching the car stay centered in the lane. It was doing its job just as it was designed. I'm not saying I was reading a book or anything, but my input on the wheel wasn't needed for long stretches. Cadillac does the system right with their new car. I trust the LKA more than I trust it to stop before hitting the car in front of me, but it did that just fine, too.
  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    You beat me to it!

    It seems that when I’ve used it very slight steering input at the warning keeps it on with only one hand or even a finger (I don’t advocate this, I just was just testing it). So I don’t think it’s something like capacitance sensor detecting your hands because then gloves might defeat the safety feature.
    If I had to guess, I’d say it’s reading off the steering input sensor but that’s just pure speculation on my part.

    Add this to the list of a bazillion questions we’d all like to ask a Honda engineer.
  11. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    The ACC is incredibly good at following cars except possibly on roads with traffic lights where it might not be tracking the car in front of one stopped at a light and the car it is tracking leaves the lane in front leaving a stopped or much slower car in front. I have used ACC for at least 12 hours and never without a missed detect (except in situation above, but this is expected as no car is being tracked).

    The LKAS system has had many cases where it would have run me off the road or into something in less time. Using it without hands is asking to enter gore zone (triangle area on Y of exit).

    The LKAS senses torque applied by your hands to the wheel. I notice if it is turning a lot or bumpy roads and it won't ask for hand input, and straight stretches even with hands on wheel it thinks they are not, a very slight wiggle side to side will make it sense the movement and clear the hands on wheel message.

    Even the much better autosteer system in the Tesla requires hands on the wheel constantly. In the Honda I sometimes hold my hands 1" from the wheel ready to take over, so wouldn't mind being able to disable the warning, but as others saying this mode of driving is more stressful as I am at elevated sense of attention, which is good. Shouldn't be too relaxed driving.
    Demian Johnston likes this.
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  13. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    ACC note, one exception, in medium rain fall the ACC failed to see a car in front (conditions where cruise should not be used). See example that person had car rear end the other.
  14. Blizzardfox

    Blizzardfox New Member

    LKAS works fairly well for me on the freeway and even on most of our fast moving 2-6 lane roads. I would, however, greatly desire being able to dial the cut in down from 45 to say, 35. There are plenty of times I'd like the extra nudge/help at lower speeds.
  15. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    Agree, LKAS is great for most freeway driving or well marked roads without steep curves. I even trust it to drive briefly opening a water bottle, etc. I just want to make clear that it isn't a hands free system. :)
    KentuckyKen likes this.
  16. tdiman

    tdiman Member

    I timed it once... I was able to get to 2m55s. The only reason I didn't get longer is that I had to exit.

    This was a very straight road with little traffic. I agree with others, it has some logic in there. I've also had it come on after 10s.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Johnhaydev likes this.
  17. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Actually, Tesla's AutoSteer requires the driver to only occasionally demonstrate he's in control by slightly wiggling the wheel, in response to a warning, pretty much exactly like you describe for Clarity LKA. AutoSteer doesn't require that the driver constantly have his hands on the wheel.

    From reports, AutoSteer does the test/response thing every few minutes, not nearly as often as the 30-seconds-or-less described by loomis2, above. However, a recent report suggests that Tesla may be increasing the frequency of that test.

    Yeah, lawyers. :(

  18. Tangible

    Tangible Active Member

    I'm grateful that Honda, like almost every other manufacturer offering this feature, has called it "Lane-Keeping Assistance", not some name that implies the car can steer itself. Its modest goal is to relieve driver fatigue by making the tiny corrections that are necessary even on an ostensibly straight road. In the Clarity that works pretty well.

    Over-reliance on these embryonic self-driving technologies can leave you dead by the side of the road. That's not "lawyers"; it's reality.
  19. Carro con enchufe

    Carro con enchufe Active Member

    I’m pretty sure the LKAS’s stated purpose is NOT hands free driving. I use it on a stretch of highway road on my commute but always keep a hand on the wheel and sometimes need to help turn during sharper curves
  20. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    Technically Autosteer is a steering assistance, the driver is supposed to keep hands on the wheel. Tesla has been lax at enforcing the driver keep hands on the wheel.
  21. loomis2

    loomis2 Well-Known Member

    LKAS definitely needs help on turns, and it loses edge lines on curves when going uphill. Right now it should only be used in the right conditions, but when those conditions are right then I have no problem taking my hands off the wheel. The LKAS in Hondas is a step towards the ultimate goal of never needing to touch the wheel. In the middle of my 9 hour drive I enjoyed just sitting there and watching the car drive itself and I wished I could have enjoyed it for longer stretches of time. I'm sure these systems will just keep improving extremely fast.
  22. Tangible

    Tangible Active Member

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  23. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    The inevitable capitalization of a bad idea is the "Autopilot Buddy," a $179 weight Tesla owners can attach to one side of the steering wheel to simulate tension from the driver's hand. I saw a photo of a much less expensive ploy: an orange jammed into the steering wheel.

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