Invisible Clarity

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by David Towle, Dec 8, 2018.

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  1. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

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  3. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    I would buy an Accord Hybrid if I was in the market. It's larger, faster, and handles better than the Insight and in real world tests, it actually gets better mileage. I chatted with a salesman when my Clarity was serviced and he said all that is true.
     
  4. RickSE

    RickSE Active Member

    Simply shocking to any Clarity owner! :) Although someone in the business should probably know better.
     
  5. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    Of course we all believe 100% of what salesman say. That's why I just bought a $50,000 timeshare! (just kidding)
     
  6. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    :D True that! I always do my research way ahead of visiting the dealer so the salesman's role is usually just to "get the manager's approval" on the price. Although my Clarity's negotiation was done 100% online. Nonetheless, the car pubs have given the Accord Hybrid stellar reviews while the Insight's have been lukewarm but still universally say that it's better than a Prius.
     
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  8. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    When we bought the Clarity we first researched online and narrowed the possibilities. Then we test-drove those vehicles. Of course our local small-town Honda dealer couldn't even spell C-l-a-r-i-t-y. I continue to be disappointed by Honda's lack of support of the car, and that was one factor in our decision of what to buy, but other factors offset it. The lack of a 2019 model is beginning to bother me; I love the Clarity but if Honda isn't going to support it that's troublesome.
     
  9. My worry is that if it's a perennially low volume car, the parts situation will be awful once there's a redesign or cancel. At least many of the non drive-train parts seem to come from other high volume Honda models
     
  10. Clarity_Newbie

    Clarity_Newbie Active Member

    MNS
    MNSteve

    Honda has committed to have a whole fleet of varying types of electric vehicles in the coming years so I do not believe long term support will be an issue.

    From what I have read they are also committed to a 2019 Clarity coming to a showroom near you in January.

    I bought the first run Clarity knowing it is a fluid engineering situation just like any other new vehicle. The vehicle power train etc is not what concerns me...its the $3,500 head unit that bothers me...what a rip off. Its a $500 Linux tablet all day long.

    Hope this helps.

    Good luck!
     
    ngtroup likes this.
  11. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    You expect a Honda salesperson to understand and promote the Clarity?

    The Accord Hybrid does get better gas mileage, but only if you ignore the Clarity's main feature. I really enjoy EV driving, but the Accord Hybrid can act as an EV for only a couple of miles. Also, I'm sure Accord Hybrid and Insight owners hear the "angry bees" a lot more often than Clarity owners.

    The 2018 Accord Hybrid is good for driving long distances without stopping for gas, but not as good as the 2017 Accord Hybrid. The 2018 gets 47/47/47 mpg and can go 601 miles on its 12.8-gallon tank, but the 2017 achieved 49/47/48 mpg and could go 696 miles on its 14.8-gallon tank.
     
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  13. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I can still get parts for my gen-1 Honda Insight even though Honda brought fewer than 15,000 of them to North America before ending production in 2006.
     
  14. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    The range of the Clarity exceeds that of my bladder, which is sufficient.
     
  15. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    Pardon the cynicism but corporate commitments don't mean much. All car makers have a stake in electric vehicles but, like all corporations, they're going to make tactical and strategic decisions based on their bottom lines. The future of electric vehicles depends on many factors including the price of gas, how battery technology develops (which in turn depends partly on the future of electric vehicles), government policy on subsidies, and public opinion. Plus, a commitment to electric vehicles does not translate to a commitment to the Clarity as is evidenced by what happened to the Volt.

    I sprung for the extended warranty because of the immaturity of the technology and the price of its components. I am willing to put up with some pain from a new technology in the name of helping it develop. Anyway, I'm a geek and I enjoy this kind of thing. And I think it's important for environmental reasons.
     
  16. Clarity_Newbie

    Clarity_Newbie Active Member

    MNSteve

    Not cynical at all...large corporations, including the automobile industry, have all earned their bottom feeder reputations. No argument there.

    One thing about it...we will know the answer in a few years how committed Honda is to EV in general and the Clarity in particular. No sense worrying about it.

    Good luck!
     
  17. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    Agree completely. You make your choice using the best information available and then live with it, re-evaluating as appropriate.
     
  18. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    The angry bees issue should not happen as much with either the Accord or the Insight. They have relatively more gas hp and less electric hp, plus CVT transmissions. The Insight for example has a similar ICE but weighs 1100 pounds less!
     
  19. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    The current range of Honda hybrids all use the same drive train, just with different size ICE, electric motors and battery pack. It is the iMMD system, which is basically the simplest design for bridging an EV drivetrain and ICE drive train.

    https://world.honda.com/automobile-technology/i-MMD/sp/

    Both EV and ICE operate with their own single fixed gear ("2nd" gear for EV and overdrive ICE) and the system switches between them. Honda and Toyota both use the term eCVT, but there is not a mechanical gear shift, only variable EV motor speed change.

    The biggest difference between the Accord and Clarity is the battery pack weight, that's why the Accord is relatively "quick." The hybrid Accord is only 200 lbs and about $1500 more than the base Accord, so it's getting close to even with the standard model, as it will eventually replace most of the base models in the future.

    Even Toyota removed a planetary gear set from the latest Prius for efficiency.
    "Transaxle and Electric Motor
    The transaxle and motor have been redesigned, delivering a reduction in their combined weight. The motor itself is considerably more compact and gains a better power-to-weight ratio. Notably there is a 20 percent reduction in mechanical losses through friction compared to the previous model. The planetary gear arrangement in the reduction gear has been replaced with parallel gears, which further helps loss reduction."

    https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2016+toyota+prius+technology.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  20. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    I should point out that it was a struggle to keep weight down in the Clarity. Which is why I think the engine is 1.5 liter and not 2 liter. That's about 100 lbs saved, also the cheap speakers, magnet weight saved probably 20 lbs or more. Same with the small wiper fluid and gas tank, etc.. The were targeting the 17 kWh battery for the full tax credit.
     
  21. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    And a whole mile of EV-only capability.

    Not to put down the Insight. All of us have different priorities on features. EV range was important to me, but I knew that I would be driving a heavier car. It will be interesting to see how battery technology changes in the next decade.
     
  22. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    You don't think the 2 liter ICE in the Accord vs 1.5 liter in the Clarity helps make it relatively quick too?
     
  23. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    Don't forget the aluminum suspension and the extensive use of aluminum and high-strength steel in the body. It's quite an achievement that the Clarity PHEV weighs less than 4,100 lbs.

    I used to try to imagine the engineers battling the product packaging people when they "collaborated" on my 1,850-lb Insight. "What?!? Power windows? Do you know how much weight that will add? And power steering for a 1,750-lb car?! If you keep this up, this aluminum car's going to end up weighing more than 1,800 lbs!"
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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