ID.4 one pedal driving?

Discussion in 'ID.4' started by sniwallof, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    Do we know anything about ID.4 regen? Are there regen paddles? Can it do one-pedal driving?
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  3. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    I think some of the VW ID.4 answers may tentatively be here (keeping in mind that Skoda (EU, Volkswagen group) probably has some different features and combinations of features than the U.S. ID.4 will have).

    Skoda ENYAQ iV configurator with UK prices

    The Skoda Drive Sport Package option has a 3-spoke heated leather multi-function steering wheel with recuperation paddles

    There are at least the D and B modes on all models which indicate one-pedal driving in B.

    At least on the Skoda, it is pretty easy to hit $60k US dollars, once you add the higher range battery and options. A base Skoda, with no options comes in around $43.6 k US dollars (before tax incentives/rebates).

    In the U.S. guesses are that there are three trim levels, standard, premium, and premium plus, plus a 1st edition model (from early images of trim pages on day 1, the Sept. 23, 2020 $100 refundable reservation). Seems that battery size (60/80) is on top of that, possibly as well as accessory packages, plus later, all wheel drive.

    (all this from curiosity reading online, no first hand knowledge of ID.4)
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
  4. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    On further reading, I think beyond the basic EV system which appears similar to the ID.4, the Skoda is a very different (pretty impressive) vehicle:

  5. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    The ID.4 will have essentially the same setup as the ID.3: D mode and B mode. D mode is coasting when you lift you right foot, and regen is integrated onto the brake pedal, and B mode that has fair bit of regen as you lift your right foot.

    Personally, I want to coast, as it is more efficient. Sure, regen is great for slowing and stopping the vehicle, but most of the time, you are moving the car forward, and coasting makes that easier and smoother, and it saves energy.
    Domenick likes this.
  6. Agzand

    Agzand Active Member

    When comparing Euro and US prices, consider that Euro prices typically include 18% VAT. In US prices are pre-tax. So in reality prices are closer than what is discussed above.

    One pedal driving is good for stop and go or city traffic and curvy roads, for other situations I prefer coasting. It is good to have both options.
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  8. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    I agree that having the choice to either coast, or have regen when you lift your right foot - is good.

    One-pedal driving was introduced (I think) by the BMW i3; and Tesla *only* has regen available on the accelerator. The i3 did 1-pedal driving the best - it has a "detent" that allows you to hold the pedal just right - and coast.

    But, to my knowledge, nobody else has done what BMW did - or they have not done it as well.

    I have been ecodriving since 2007, and I have been driving EVs for over 6 years. We have had 5 EVs; and my extended family has had 13 electric cars. I know that coasting is the best way to drive efficiently. I also know that regen is much better than using friction brakes - so regen should be integrated on the brake pedal - and EVs should (at least have the option to) coast by default.

    Just lift you right foot - and coast. With no futzing - every time and consistently *coast*.

    One-pedal driving is like racing - it tends to encourage the driver to accelerate more, and then slow more. Regen is good - but it is not a magic bullet. You regain some energy, but it can never regain all of it. So, accelerate less, then coast, and then if you need to slow down - use regen.
    Tony S likes this.
  9. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    My motivation when I one pedal drive, far less in recent years, is simply to enjoy the driving style at the moment. Not trying to drive sport like, nor to save energy, simply to enjoy the driving experience at the moment, what feels most comfortable to me, at the moment. I agree with most of the @NeilBlanchard statements above, simply a different personal view. One paddle driving can be a very individual choice, and many folks absolutely hate it, finding the feathering aspect tiring. Others find it enjoyable, and not difficult at all, even easier in some situations.

    I drove my 2014 Volt strictly in L, never thought much about it, got in, pulled it back to L, and that was just comfortable for me. With paddles, Bolt, Clarity (far less regen, but still useable), Hyundai Ioniq electric, sometimes I work the paddles, mostly for fun. In some cases, I find one pedal driving (or, as close as I can get for the EV I'm driving) easier and more comfortable in some local driving, including approaching right angle turns.

    The ID.4 will bring a slight twist, because it has no regen paddles. I am not at all convinced they are needed, but when provided, I use them. I think (?) it will make the decision to go from D to B a bit more deliberate, compared to a casual tug either way on a paddle. (I think Nissan LEAF had one pedal driving in B from day one, but that is one of the few EVs I have not tried (this will be 7 EVs for me). I think a number of us are enjoying trying many different models; someday I will probably find one I like enough to just keep for 10 years, maybe the ID.4 will be the one.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  10. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    The ID.3 and ID.4 do have a D and a B mode. The B mode is strong regen on the accelerator, but probably won't stop the car without the brakes, at the end. The i3 does stop the car, in many situations. I think that some cars that have 1-pedal modes - do so by using friction brakes at the slowest speeds.

    So, be careful what you wish for. Having regen integrated on the brake pedal is done by almost everybody - except Tesla; which is weird, in my opinion.

    I will drive our ID.4 in D most of the time, and then on a long downgrade when coasting is getting the car going too fast, then I'll put it in B. I hope that even if you like the idea of 1-pedal driving, that folks try driving in D for a day or three, and see if you can coast in places that you would not expect to be able to - and see if you get longer range.

    Our e-Golf gets as much as 6.5 miles / kWh in nice weather, over a long period of time. The 125 mile EPA range car can get up to 190 miles, in average summer conditions, and that is with 4 different drivers; so it's not just me.
  11. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    We own a 2017 Bolt EV, and the D/L arrangement (with the paddle switch) is similar to the Volt. The D in the Bolt EV has a bit of regen, and L has quite strong regen. The paddle is an odd duck - it has a brief "ramp up" and then it give full regen. We don't find it very useful.

    Here's how I drive the Bolt EV: D most of the time, and I manually shift into N when I want to coast, and then back to D. I do shift into L very occasionally, but simply using the brake pedal is easier. Coasting can happen a *lot* more often than you probably think, and it adds a significant amount of range. We are averaging about 5.5 miles / kWh in the Bolt EV; which includes a fair bit of highway driving. We regularly get estimated ranges up to 340 miles (it is 238 for the EPA rating).

    Another aspect of this, is creep. The e-Golf has adaptive creep - it has no creep by default, but once you get into stop and go traffic, it has a mild creep that makes it smooth and easy to deal with traffic. After you go above about 20MPH, the creep goes away again.

    On the Bolt EV (and I imagine the Volt is the same), there is a relatively strong creep in D, and no creep in L. I have almost always driven a manual shift, so I don't like creep - but having adaptive creep is awesome.
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  13. rgus

    rgus New Member

    I just read a review of the ID 4 and it said that it wasn't capable of one pedal driving. I have owned 2 BEVs (actually leased them) and plan to buy my next one. I would not buy a BEV that didn't offer one pedal driving. Everyone has their own preferences but to me that is a distinct advantage they have over ICE cars. If VW doesn't offer it I won't be considering it for my purchase. So far the Tesla Model Y is at the top of the list.
  14. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    I am not sure that Tesla has 1-pedal driving? They have strong regen on the accelerator (I think?), but I think you do have to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop. (I have driven many electric cars, but never driven a Tesla.) The odd thing about Tesla, is they are the only maker that does not blend in regen on the *brake* pedal.

    The car that introduced 1-pedal driving is the i3, and the the newer Leafs have it - though I think they just blend in the friction brakes for you, to come to a complete stop. The Bolt EV in L is close to 1-pedal, though like most EVs, coming to a complete stop is not possible in some situations. The motor can't have the torque to do this, because it has to spin to generate the force; so by definition, this is harder and harder to do as the car slows down.

    If you can test drive an i3, you can see what 1-pedal driving is like - it takes a bit of getting used to. BMW has made it fairly easy to coast, by having a "detent" right at the point between accelerating and braking; but in the other EVs I have driven with strong regen (mainly the Bolt EV in L) it is nearly impossible to smoothly hold a steady speed without constantly slowing/surging/slowing/surging. Be careful what you wish for?

    I will hopefully be able to test drive an ID.4 by the end of this year.
  15. sniwallof

    sniwallof Active Member

    Some consider one-pedal driving as just that, mostly feathering ("modulating") the go pedal, in addition to using the brake as needed (i.e. to stop). In normal driving, it is entirely possibly to do one-pedal driving even in a Honda Clarity, with very little regen maxed out in "four chevrons" in sport mode. In this view of one pedal driving, it simply means feathering the go pedal, where letting up on the go pedal means EM (regen) braking (i.e. using the brakes far less than one would in "D"). I am not debating the merits, just a different view of what one-pedal driving is.

    If one pedal driving is defined as coming to a complete a stop without ever touching the brake pedal (or by a regen brake pedal?), very few EVs qualify.

    I expect the ID.4 to have modest regen compared to Bolt (esp. Bolt brake plus paddle), much more than Clarity, possibly (TBD) just below or close to Volt "L". When I first test drove Bolt, I found it jerky compared to L in Volt. It took some time for me to re-train myself for one pedal driving in Bolt. I think for me anyway, somewhat less regen than Bolt was easier to "one-pedal" drive. Anyway, I've mostly moved away from one pedal driving, but for no other reason than I like D more now, except when I play with one pedal driving (or one pedal "like" driving) around town, or down hill.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  16. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    Well, if you need to use 2 pedals, then that can't be 1-pedal driving, right? ;-) Seriously though, I suggest that people drive a BMW i3 to experience 1-pedal driving done very well; because they have made it easier to coast; with a easy to find threshold between accelerating and regen. And for most driving, it is truly 1-pedal.

    Strong regen on the accelerator, as I said before, makes it harder to drive at a consistent speed in a smooth way; and it is not as efficient. When the car is rolling forward, you can use that kinetic energy to keep moving the car forward - or you can slow it down, and then accelerate it again. Regen can never regain all the energy "invested" in get the car moving, so making it hard to coast means you almost always consume more energy to cover a given distance.

    One-pedal driving allows 2 modes of driving: accelerating and slowing down. Which sounds like racing.

    Anyone who knows how to drive efficiently / ecodrive / hypermile - knows that we need to have a third mode, and that is coasting.
    sniwallof likes this.

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