HondaLink/Telematics Are Free For A Reason-Should We Be Okay With That??

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by AnthonyW, Jul 17, 2018.

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  1. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW Well-Known Member

    Some have asked how long we will get the Hondalink and telematics services for free. As it turns out it is not actually free. By purchasing the car, you are consenting to sharing all of your information all of the time. See attached files that shows the origins of this program starting in 2012 with the Fit EV. In the beginning it was used to gather real time data on battery health and performance. It seems to have evolved into much more over the years.

    Before we get to far, here is a link to website that detail how to opt out of the data collection:

    View the Honda App License Agreement starting on page 291 of the owners manual:

    ...You acknowledge and agree that any collection, use, sharing of data generated by your VEHICLE or your use of your VEHICLE, and your use of the HONDA SERVICES shall be subject to this AGREEMENT and any additional HONDA TERMS that may be specifically applicable to such HONDA SERVICES or data generation. The HONDA SERVICES may collect, use, and share such data while you are using the SOFTWARE...

    Here are all the ways Honda may use your data:

    How Honda May Maintain, Use, and Disclose the Covered Information Honda commits to maintaining, using, and disclosing Covered Information in ways that are consistent with the context in which the Covered Information was collected, taking into account the likely impact on vehicle owners and registered users of the Connected Vehicle Technologies and Services. Subject to the terms and limitations of this Vehicle Privacy Policy, we may use Covered Information, and may disclose Covered Information to third party responders, applicable third party service providers, our affiliate companies and business partners, law enforcement or other governmental entities: • to provide the Connected Vehicle Technologies and Services; • to communicate with you; • to evaluate and improve vehicle and systems’ quality, performance and design, as well as the quality, performance and design of Connected Vehicle Technologies and Services (including related systems and software applications); • to help you to maintain your vehicle; • to administer Honda’s business and operations; • to provide superior service; • to offer opportunities that Honda thinks would be of benefit to vehicle owners; • to perform market research; • to develop future services and/or products; • to prevent fraud or misuse; • to comply with legal requirements (e.g., to respond to a subpoena); • to engage in dispute resolution; • to facilitate the provision of software updates; • to provide product support; • to help protect the safety of you or others; • to protect Honda’s rights or property; • to enable other related uses Honda may develop; • in the event of a change of control or bankruptcy proceeding; • for any other purpose for which Honda obtains your consent; and • as permitted by law.
    lorem101 likes this.
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  3. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I don't have a problem with this.
    benmwaldie, pinrut and DaleL like this.
  4. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    No problem for me either since I always have my phone in the car and I’m just a court ordered search warrant away from having all my GPS data made public. Also with cameras at more and more intersections and license plate grabbing software, privacy is becoming a thing of the past.
    DaleL likes this.
  5. ace base

    ace base Member

    After few days of purchase we got a mail by post that had an option to opt out of some data sharing. Conveniently this option could only be exercised via post, and not online. I did opt out of all item they would allow.

    Regarding telematics, yes its lousy, perhaps disable wifi in the car. No more reporting of anything to you or Honda, same as older gas cars.
  6. vicw

    vicw Active Member

    If anyone can make a viable argument about how that information could realistically be used to harm me, to a greater degree than the day-to-day benefits I get from the the service it provides, I would start to worry about it.
    MNSteve likes this.
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  8. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Since the car communicates by cellular packet data, I don’t think disabling WiFi will do you any good.
  9. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    And it’s not just Honda. Our Ford, Subaru, and Toyota all have the same “agreements”. In some cases opting out of data sharing eliminates the features. Toyota Entunes is an example. I haven’t completely gone through the gobbledygook yet, but I believe Apple CarPlay has its own agreements just as all-encompassing and to add to the complications, I also believe there is language for that software to the effect that Honda doesn’t warranty it won’t cause problems.

    As I see it at the moment (and this could change), the real problem with the connectivity is not so much privacy as it is bad people hacking into the car’s operation. Given how stunningly incompetent some of the telematics have been in some vehicles, I can’t imagine car companies being very effective at anti-hacking.
    Johnhaydev likes this.
  10. If you have problem with that, you should just ditch your Android phone and don't use the Chrome browser, Google is the king in collecting everything about you, though others are doing as well.
  11. Steven B

    Steven B Active Member

    Probably allows Honda to stream ads to your display if they wanted to. You've already noticed enlarged icons on the Garmin nav interface that is the result of payments made to Garmin/Honda to promote certain commercial enterprises above others.
    bfd likes this.
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  13. DVoran

    DVoran Member

    Don’t have an issue with those parameters. Look what Tesla has done with their pooling and sharing of data. Of course, it would be fantastic if we could access that data, get feedback, trip maps and a host of other features (how we compare with other drivers in similar situations). My guess is that even Honda’s not using the data but just covering themselves legally as we certainly have to put up with inaccurate odometer readings and a host of other discrepancies we can’t correct.

    Sent from my iPad using Inside EVs
  14. ace base

    ace base Member

    As per Honda's website
    "Only vehicles purchased in the US and Canada have the ability to share data with Honda. You may contact your Honda Clarity authorized dealer to assist you with the cancellation procedures. You can also cancel services and turn off vehicle data uploads using the ‘HondaLink’ mobile app." I could not find this feature on the HondaLink mobile app.
  15. ace base

    ace base Member

    I could not find any reference which indicates that the Car has a built in cell (LTE). I have also not seen any references to HondaLink subscription any where.
  16. Atkinson

    Atkinson Active Member

    If the telematics unit didn't have cellular data, it couldn't communicate with the Honda cloud and update your HondaLink app when you are away from your car.
    Open Wi-Fi would not work reliably enough for Honda or it's owners.
    Yeah, it's a privacy issue, but it Honda wants to know where I drive and charge every day, I'm OK with that.
    I had to sign a disclaimer for our Fit EV 5 years ago that Honda could listen to the internal mic for the voice commands and that my conversations weren't private.
    I don't think my conversations are that interesting that anyone would save them.
    In my house, maybe not so much.
    If I can opt out without losing any features, I would go for it, though.
  17. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    You can prove this to yourself by parking the car in an area that has no cellular service signal. Then take your phone to an area that does and you’ll find it won’t be able to communicate with the car. Also, you can google TCU. Honda either chose a TCU that does not have voice capability (like GM OnStar) or decided not to activate it. Personally I like the free Honda Link features and would not want to pay for the concierge features of OnStar.

    You are correct in that Honda has no written or web based information that indicates that the Clarity will ever need a paid subscription for Honda Link. This is why we are assuming that it will be free for life. If Honda ever tries to start charging and not grandfather us in, then based on that fact I would think it would be time for a class action lawsuit.
  18. weave

    weave Active Member

    Back in the day I would have cared, but not anymore. It's hopeless to stay anonymous anymore. Also the benefits to me are greater than the risks. Like the car reporting to 911 if you wreck it. It could save my life one day.

    I'm more concerned about unauthorized access and hacking into the car. Like I saw it "appears" to be possible to install Android app APKs in the app section, but I'd never do that because it just opens it up for more third party access. I also read posts elsewhere of how to root the headend unit so you can turn on the ability to use the apps and Google Chrome while driving ... and I saw a video of someone driving the Clarity while watching videos on Youtube. That's REALLY insane risk to do with a car (let alone the stupidity of watching video while driving). I would hope the app section of that headend is sandboxed correctly and away from the ability to control operations of the car, but it's still not a comforting thought.
  19. Steven B

    Steven B Active Member

  20. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    I don't think the information Honda is gathering will be used to reveal my affairs with porn stars and Playboy bunnies, so I'm OK with it ; )
    Louis Nisenbaum and AnthonyW like this.
  21. Raymondca

    Raymondca Member

    So Hondalink subscription is free. Good, I just bought a level 2 charger without wifi due to lower price. The only thing I care about the wifi is charging status. So I can get that from Hondalink. It's not real time, but I can live with it.
  22. DVoran

    DVoran Member

    Interesting dichotomy of opinions. I’ll have to say this about Honda. At least they’re not charging $300 a year or more (as Jeep/Chrysler, MB, and others do) with the same boiler plate terms of agreement. On the other hand it would be nice to have access to all of the data and plug that back into improving their product like Tesla and some of the other companies and apps do.
    Here’s the thing that’s conflicting in all of this privacy debate. Total transparency is 100% security. Total privacy I is very, very risky. I would venture that more bad behavior occurs in the dark than in the light. What’s even worse is that it doesn’t matter if we want to cloak ourselves in privacy ... just purchasing a car and having an address will enable anybody that wants to to fill in all the blanks with average data from others who share the few demographics we can’t avoid sharing no matter how wildly wrong they are. I’d rather stamp me we the right facts than the wrong ones as the wrong ones have the potential to cause much more damage than correct ones.
    So I do like the fact Honda provides their mediocre app for free and hope there’s enough gain for them to make the enhancements that I’d like but for which I wouldn’t pay. Needless to say I didn’t extend the use of the Jeep/Chrysler UConnect nor the Mercedes Benz apps once the free period expired after purchasing those vehicles in the past.
  23. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    I am ok with it.

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