Honda Clarity plug in Japan version - significantly higher performance

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Bravo1231, Jul 31, 2018.

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  1. Bravo1231

    Bravo1231 New Member

    Just came across the Japan version of the clarity plug in. Same battery size but significantly better performance! 65 mph and 70 mile range what does everyone think? Maybe we see something similar in the US next year? https://www.honda.co.jp/CLARITYPHEV/?from=topbanner
     
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  3. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I think you'll find the difference in range is because they are using a different measuring stick. In the US, we use the EPA cycle, which is pretty close to most real use cases. In Japan they use a different one which is pretty, um, optimistic about the range you'll see.

    Basically, there's no real difference in range between a Japanese Clarity Plug-In Hybrid and an American one.
     
  4. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    The Outlander PHEV is marketed as having a 33 mile range in the UK but the EPA estimated range is just 22 miles for the US. It has the same 12 kWh battery in both countries and is basically the same vehicle. This could be why so many are reporting over 60 miles of EV range in the Clarity now that the weather is warmer. The 47 mile range is probably a good average for those of us who have cold winters. Turning on the heater kills the range.

    A real difference is the price. US$52000 in Japan even though they're made there. Japanese cars don't cost more in the Japan as they do in the US (often, they are less) so it's likely that the Clarity is sold as a loss leader in the US.
     
  5. JackH

    JackH Member

    EPA testing protocol is BS. What they consider Highway and High Speed are not realistic.
    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
    - Highway Test - Length 765 seconds - Distance 10.26 Miles - Average Speed 48.3 mph
    - High Speed Test - Length 596 seconds - Distance 8.01 Miles - Average Speed 48.37 mph

    I have a Ford F-150 EcoBoost rated at 21 MPG Highway. At 75-80 mph over a 874 mile (Denver to Dallas) trip actual mpg is 14.2. At 60 mph going through Oklahoma City 19.1 mpg. So, how is the EPA testing more realistic?
     
  6. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    It is pretty strange. The EPA estimate for Clarity's HV mileage is 40 mpg on the highway (44 city) but Car and Driver measured 46 mpg on their standard loop going 75 mph. At that speed, they should have gotten much worse mileage than the EPA estimate. I've gotten 52 mpg on country roads going 50-60 mph. Usually, people get worse mileage than the EPA estimates but many in this forum have reported doing better in the Clarity.
     
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  8. Odobo

    Odobo Active Member

    Hmm.... Those speed looks pretty average to me.... I drive up to 80+ on freeway for 90% of my commute and my average speed is still in the low 40s. The average is low doesn't mean it's wrong.
     
  9. JackH

    JackH Member

    I also seem to get better mileage in my Clarity. That's why the F-150 stays parked in the garage!
     
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  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I agree w PHEV Newbie. On a 500 m round trip (round trips account for elevation change) I got 49 mpg staring in HV and not using any charging or EV to fudge the mpg. This was using ACC and doing the speed limits of 60 to 70 mph.
    So the EPA numbers are not artificially high for the Clarity. If anything, I’m finding then a little on the low side.
     
  11. lordsutch

    lordsutch Member

    Obviously, no test cycle will perfectly duplicate all real-world conditions, but in general the North American (EPA) test cycles are generally considered more likely to reflect real-world driving scenarios than the test cycles used in Europe (NEDC) and Japan, which tend to have more unrealistic assumptions about how people drive in reality. (Incidentally, while the average or mean speed in the U.S. high speed test is 48 mph, about half the test is continuously between 60-80 mph with some "stop and go" at the beginning and end.)

    For example, your F-150 would probably actually get a higher highway mpg rating on NEDC, if Ford sold it in Europe (which it doesn't), which would be even less realistic than the 10% drop-off observed from EPA at 60 mph and 30% drop-off at 75-80 mph.

    My assumption on why the Clarity seemingly outperforms the EPA ratings is that most drivers have some experience with EVs or hybrids, and so are consciously or subconsciously using "hypermiling" strategies to some extent rather than the aggressive speed changes that are tested (look at the graph for the city cycle at the link). The Clarity is also tested in its "default" mode, which is not ECON or HV; the 42-44 mpg figure derived from testing is probably accompanied by the angry bees, since the gas tests are done starting with a completely depleted charge and you're not going to get much regen to smooth things out.
     
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  13. qtpie

    qtpie Active Member

    Perhaps, but would it be $34k or $52k? I am glad we got the $34k version. :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
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  14. Bravo1231

    Bravo1231 New Member

    After doing some more research on the different rating methods I agree with this.
     
  15. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    Honda had a lawsuit a few years ago here in the US that made national news. One of thier hybrids stopped getting the advertised mpg. It was mostly due to battery depletion over several years. I never heard the out come. But they probably do not want to overstate anything and get more bad publicity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  16. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    I was laughing at this, as I drove the car hard and fast and it still gets the EPA figures. It is really ridiculous (in a good way). That engine is incredibly efficient. I am going to post the economy I have been getting with the car and driving 2500 miles in a couple weeks it averaged 40+ mpg (as measured with fill ups, not overly optimistic trip computer) at 75-83 mph is just insane.
     
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  17. phevophile

    phevophile New Member

    I dont think there are significant differences in US and Japanese versions. Like others said, it is probably different testing conditions and methodologies.
     
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  18. JCEV

    JCEV Active Member

    For the first time I drained yesterday my EV range to around 10KM or 6.5 miles. My full reading charge after doing this was 92km or around 57 miles all city. The EPA number of 47 miles includes half hwy i believe which is very inefficient for our electric motor due to weight and wind resistance. I accelerate very hard eco 3/4 pedal down and use regen breaking as much as possible. I was really pushing it and still avg'd 92 (57 miles) on my next full charge. Very impressed.

    The Japanese figures are very very light and don't represent real world conditions. EPA's are the most accurate and rigorous
     
  19. rodeknyt

    rodeknyt Active Member

    About the only good the EPA estimates are is to indicate that for any particular mix of driving YOU do, one car will get you better economy than another. The numbers themselves don't necessarily reflect what YOU will get, only that a car with higher numbers will probably do better for the way YOU drive than one with lower numbers.
     
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  20. I've heard manufacturers tune their cars to have best efficiency at about 55mph for highway driving to get the best EPA result. If you usually drive close to that, you will likely get the best mileage.
    However, I'm not sure about if that applies to EV.

    I noticed my Jeep gets the best MPG when driving on freeway with some traffic to keep it about 50mph, otherwise I will drive at 75mph which has a lot worse MPG.
     
  21. Atkinson

    Atkinson Active Member

    Per the Honda website, domestic version will include some interesting features:
    False Start Prevention
    Traffic Sign Recognition
    Lead Car Departure Notification System (besides ACC with low speed follow)
    L2 and L3 fast charging (0% to 80% indicated in 30 minutes)
     
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  22. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Is that the base or Touring? Not enough cool stuff to justify the $14K price difference if you ask me.
     
  23. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

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