Gas at $2.05/gal today

Discussion in 'General' started by bwilson4web, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Driving an errand, I saw gas listed at $2.05/gal and confirmed with GasBuddy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. TheMagster

    TheMagster New Member

    Not around here! What part of the country are you in?

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Hi,

    Huntsville AL which is in the "Gulf Coast (PADD 3)" area per:
    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_r30_w.htm.

    [​IMG]
    The switch from Summer to Winter blend usually drops the retail price of gasoline in the Fall. Then around March-April, the switch to Summer blend brings the price up again. Just getting down to $2.05 (generic discount gas) is more than I remember in recent years.

    I saw one ABC article (undated, it appears to be ~3 years old) suggesting we're about to see a 'Market Correction' (i.e., stock market fall.) Often triggered by a Lemming-like, reaction, that speculative article suggests the recent stock market decreases in prices was due to low demand from reduced economic activity. But take a grain of salt as there are 'short sellers' who tout negative news to support their 'profit taking' practices.

    The https://www.eia.gov will release their next weekly report later on Monday, November 26. There are fuel pipes that travel from Houston to the East Coast. When one of the pipes ruptured several years ago, we could see a sharp boundary between the unbroken part and the East Coast.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  4. Jack

    Jack Administrator Staff Member

    2.05 is about the lowest I have seen out here in Dallas and north east Texas, easier to find is 2.09 with highest around 2.29
     
  5. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    The price of oil has been dropping pretty hard, so it makes sense the price of gasoline would come down too. While it seems mostly tied to surging supply, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lessening of demand as this administrations trade policies really start to affect the economy.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  6. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    So can we do the math of Model 3 savings with this? A new 2019 Corolla is 50 mpg. So, it is 4c a mile.
    How many cents for a mile in a Model 3 in this winter? 5c/mile without considering the loan costs + extra insurance costs?
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    We should use the City numbers when they are posted by the EPA. Today, I found:
    • 2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback: 32 city 42 highway 36 combined
    • 2.8 gal/100 mi ~= $5.74/100 mi ... $.057 / mi.
    • 2018 Model 3 Mid Range: 128 city 117 highway 123 combined
    • 27 kWh/100 mi ~= $2.70/100 mi ... $.027 / mi.
    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  8. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    When we get the EPA listings, soon enough, we can recalculate using current electric and gas prices.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Are you worried that it will be more expensive to drive your car on electricity than gasoline?

    What is a good site to learn about how to compare the cost of driving the Clarity on gas or electricity?

    My simple estimation is that one full battery will drive about the same distance as one gallon of gas for the Clarity. Filling my battery costs about $1.70, so as long as my gallon of gas is more than that then electricity is better for me.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    No because there is a factor of 2-3 between a gas mile and an EV mile. It was just the surprise of seeing a relatively low price.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. Where do you get that factor of 2-3? Was the rest of my comment wrong?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    In Huntsville AL, our current electric and gas rates, seasonally low gas, are:
    • $0.10/kWh
    • $1.97/gal (regular @Costco)
    • $2.34/gal (premium @Costco)
    We have two plug-in hybrids so we get the both a kWh/100 mi and gal/100 mi from each:
    • 2017 Prius Prime
      • 25 kWh/100 mi = $2.50
      • 1.9 gal/100 mi (regular) = $3.74 (1.49x)
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx
      • 29 kWh/100 mi = $2.90
      • 2.6 gal/100 mi (premium) = $6.08 (2.10x)
    In Huntsville AL, our current electric and gas rates, seasonally low gas, are:
    • $0.10/kWh
    • $2.25/gal (regular, common)
    • $2.90/gal (premium, common)
    So if we use these seasonally low values:
    • 2017 Prius Prime
      • 25 kWh/100 mi = $2.50
      • 1.9 gal/100 mi (regular) = $4.28 (1.71x)
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx
      • 29 kWh/100 mi = $2.90
      • 2.6 gal/100 mi (premium) = $7.54 (2.60x)
    Going back to 10/22/18, the EIA reported:
    • $2.58/gal (regular)
    • $3.15/gal (premium)
    So if we use these more normal, summer values:
    • 2017 Prius Prime
      • 25 kWh/100 mi = $2.50
      • 1.9 gal/100 mi (regular) = $4.90 (1.96x)
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx
      • 29 kWh/100 mi = $2.90
      • 2.6 gal/100 mi (premium) = $8.19 (2.82x)
    There are source and seasonal variation in the cost of gas. Buying at our local Costco in the winter is a bargain. Buying on the road in the summer, gas is more expensive. So I stand by 2-3x WHEN charging at home. Retail, price of out-of-town charging is about 3x the cost of gasoline.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    I think the problem is @bwilson4web is comparing slow charging at night at home that burns coal & NG to the ultra fast charging of gas pumps.

    Here is EVGO, that charges $0.20 a minute for 50 kw charger. That's a minimum of $0.24 per KWh (if yor car can get 50kw all the time). Which is like 8c/mile. Much more expensive to refuel that a Camry hybrid. Not to mention the time spent charging.
    https://www.evgo.com/charging-locations/

    Charge point is likely similar or more expensive due to the parking fees.
    Tesla superchargers could be little cheaper, since Tesla subsidizes it heavily to sell more cars.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Over 90% of my plug-in miles are in Huntsville AL, ~13,000 EV of ~15,000 miles/year.

    Around town, I use both $0.10/kWh home charging, ~3/4 or ~10,000 mi, and about ~1/4 or ~3,000 mi on free chargers. On PlugShare.com, you'll find two, broken Blink, fee based chargers. The downtown, 40 kW DC fastcharger has a $0.25 parking fee per 30 minutes during parking enforcement hours (i.e., free after 5PM to 7AM, Sat-Sun, and holidays.)

    Free chargers have problems too. Many are at dealers and locked up outside of business hours (brilliant business plan!) Other free chargers have undocumented limits of 16-32A at 208 VAC versus the 40A @240 VAC of my home unit. Still, a free charge makes it easy to shop where they exist. With free chargers, our $0.10/kWh is closer to $0.075/kWh.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    If you're going to post, at least use accurate information:
    https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=AL#tabs-4
    1. 5877 MWh - Natural Gas
    2. 3700 MWh - Nuclear
    3. 3273 MWh - Coal
    4. 797 MWh - Hydroelectric
    5. 336 MWh - Renewables
    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
    Domenick likes this.
  17. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    And also take into account how the renewable portion is growing, the coal portion falling, and the carbon contribution of burning gasoline.

    Additionally, if trends continue, and we have every expectation that they will, an EV's carbon footprint lightens, while an internal combustion engine will become less efficient.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Looking for something else, I found Ben Sullins from YouTube offers a general, charge cost model:


    Living in Huntsville AL, I'm following what I actually pay for our cars. Ben's models may help those in other areas to get a clue.

    Good Luck,
    Bob Wilson
     
  19. silversod

    silversod Member

    Jeeez! I fuelled up the other day here in the UK, £5.78 / $7.37 UK gallon.
     
  20. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Yeah, but Imperial gallons are bigger than U.S. gallons...

    *ducks
     
    silversod likes this.

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