Even a merged VW-GM-Ford (VGF) wouldn't last much longer

Discussion in 'General' started by 101101, Nov 16, 2018.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    At this point I don't think VW, GM or Ford even survive the transition. But that is no reason to slow it down! Its a reason to accelerate it.

    Do you notice that for the first time in a long long time Ford has more revenue than GM, but note Ford is a penny stock even with its outrageous dividend paying- might fall off the exchanges all together without that bit of bribery. Notice how the credit industry is now subsidizing these structurally bankrupt bygone era firms with "99.9% bad credit loans on vehicles approved."

    VW's Herb Diess just made a electric cars are coal cars claim. Ford just decided to shack up with VW. VW's tried to rope Apple into its AV charade (always seeking credibility.) GM's Abelson announced GM for the next two decades would essentially be gas and diesel and AV free. Straight up said no EV or AV trucks and given Ford's abandoning cars in the US appears to be abandoning both EV and AV- truth comes out on GM's trying to foist on its stock holders- but you could see this already a while back when Barra was talking about Maven's cost per mile- it was 10x what was reasonable. These people have been very consistent, they are completely consistent in their dishonesty and lack of insight and lack of being touch with their customers and even have lack of shame with regard to their disregard for their audiences awareness or comprehension. The clueless are running these firms. But they do seem to be in a panic over trucks. All this goes beyond situations like Balmer referring to Apple as the "super small market share guys" as Microsoft seems to have survived whereas these firms aren't likely to survive.

    Really happy about the Rivian truck about to be announced. Think it will be a floor for where Tesla will go but will apparently be much, much more legitimate than Lutz' Workhorse. The timing couldn't be more perfect. Tesla only makes 3 vehicles but they are better by a very long shot than anything made by VW Group, Ford or GM. As discussed in another thread it would only take maybe 8 (vice thread's title of 9) vehicles from Tesla to completely separate VW, GM, and Ford from demand. These three firms make the equivalent of wood encased console tube TV sets whereas Tesla makes the equivalent of 82 inch OLEDs and QLEDs - its like early 1970s vs 2020s. It is certain now that Tesla will get its Pick Ups and Semi out. VW says in essence it will do electrics only because of China- as if tech and progress could be restricted to China. VW, Ford and GM represent 570 billion a year in revenue. But its all literally pre 2011 product (year model S was introduced) and that is being extremely charitable. None of them have ever produced a non weird mobile EV. VW's plan to compete with Tesla is compact Bolts which is proven not to work.

    And yet here is VW admitting it will only take EV seriously beyond compliance elsewhere because of China and the apparently only in China. I suppose that means the rest of the world is supposed to drool over what is in China and dream about what is in China but it won't be for sale in the EU or US by VW and of course no competitor even Tesla will be allowed to bring equivalents to these markets.

    The heads of Ford and GM and VW belong to tribal petrarchy bs, their dividends and profits are made (just like the fossil fuel industry everywhere,) out of public subsidy and tribute. They are part of a petty conspiracy that was never in the public interest but has cost humanity greatly. Its coming to an end. I look forward to the bankruptcy of these firms. I hope the headship jurisdictions retire their namesakes permanently as their impact on the world over the last 50 years becomes more and more clear. Still doubt this outcome? Right now or in the foreseeable future do we think the EU or the US would be in the mood to bail out any of these firms even over the ever more hollow jobs pretense? No we don't.

    The big picture presents the clearest picture of why these firms will not survive. They are being told that they will be sacrificed to petrarchy to slow the tide of EV down because as Tesla has admitted it cannot produce by itself all the capacity the world needs. So these firms will sell comparative junk which means they sales will fall off sharply and they will go bankrupt after a string of FCA style mergers and all this to try to deny productive capacity (such as is) and capital to the EV sector to protect fossil fuel and its ill gotten subsides.
    This is akin to the strategy of burn baby burn to burn through CO2 thresholds in an effort to sacrifice future generations for the present greed of people paid off long ago for any actual contribution.

    These gas lantern and candle makers are now in an environment where they are trying to sell their wares to people who have friends with cheap perfected light bulbs. People in this situation save up for the electric light bulbs and cut back on candles and gas lanterns and its all down hill. Tesla's stock price will soon be above VWs and at that point it will be the 2nd highest auto maker valuation in the world. Not long after that it will eclipse Toyota in market value. When that happens expect a public turn on Toyota's part hard toward EVs with actual product launches- at that point these companies will be bankrupt- I expect their bankruptcy by 2022 all there of them and do not expect them to be revived.
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  3. DaleL

    DaleL Active Member

    "Notice how the credit industry is now subsidizing these structurally bankrupt bygone era firms with "99.9% bad credit loans on vehicles approved."

    The facts are quite different. From Investopedia: "Making money by selling cars requires huge outlays. Making money by financing the cars, on the other hand, doesn't. Ford Credit, the automaker’s leasing arm, earned the company $678 million in Q3 2018, its best quarterly result in over seven years and a $78 million increase from a year ago. Ford Credit's margins are so wide that the company couldn't be blamed for considering halting all auto manufacturing and just focusing on money lending."
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    GE Finance did the same to General Electric. The knowledge and skill based divisions were sold off thus lobotomizing themselves. GE is much smaller today.

    Bob Wilson

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