EV range vs HV range tradeoff

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by kcsunshine, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. kcsunshine

    kcsunshine Active Member

    I was wondering how people like the balance between EV and HV range in their Clarities. Would you have preferred Honda put in a larger gas tank and reduced the size of the battery or vice versa? Or are you perfectly happy with the 17kwhr battery and 7 gallon gas tank and feel Honda made the right decision? Keep in mind that with winter coming, some people will get significantly reduced EV range. Initially I was hesitant in buying the car because of the small gas tank. I liked the Honda Accord Hybrid because it is capable of a 700mile range. If it wasn't for the federal tax credit of $7500, I would probably have gotten the Accord Hybrid. Here is where I think Honda made the right decision. They maximized the credit while still having a gas tank. Based on the calculation in IRC 30D (look it up), I think they could have made the battery 16kwhr and still have the maximum $7500 credit. If it was possible, would you have preferred a 16kwhr and a slightly bigger gas tank?
     
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  3. JCEV

    JCEV Active Member

    I think 100km or 60 miles of range more of the magic EV number I would like to see. So yes I would like a bit more EV as you do lose a good 30 percent of range in the winter. That being said I do like to keep it in normal and hit the engine in some spirited driving which effectively gets me the extra range while providing some great acceleration.
     
  4. Viking79

    Viking79 Well-Known Member

    I would prefer 2-4 extra gallons from the gas tank, too much battery adds cost to the vehicle. Too much range on a PHEV means you should just buy a Model 3 or something. 50 mile EV range seems about right for me.

    Remember, it is a gas car and you should burn gas in regularly to keep the engine in good shape. I know people with Volts that go 100,000 miles or more without using the engine (except for maintenance modes). Although great they can go all electric, an EV with 100 or 150 mile range would be much better in that case.

    Edit: I find the EV range good on the Clarity, I want 4 more gallons fuel capacity, but wouldn't trade EV range or for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  5. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Because the Clarity PHEV can achieve 42 mpg (combined), I consider the 7-gallon gas tank capacity to be adequate. I sometimes feel like I have a better pit crew on the rare visits to a gas station because the tiny tank enables me to exit that pit in record time.

    I'm glad Honda didn't share the Clarity Electric's 25 kWh battery with the Plug-In Hybrid because a usable trunk is an essential feature for me. When considering the trade-off between a smaller battery for a larger gas tank, I would not want to sacrifice even 1 mile of EV range for a larger tank.
     
  6. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    I agree totally with @insightman.
    He nailed it.
    I’ll add that my old man’s bladder did the math and calculated that 7 gal x 49 mpg (my average at 70 mph) = over 4 hours of driving which is more than it can stand without stopping to pump bilges, so to speak. So I have no need for a larger gas tank. I would welcome a few more miles of EV, especially in the winter, but not at the expense of trunk space. With no long commute and a Level 2 EVSE, I can do all my local driving in EV, so I’m at better than 90% EV with the current design.
    Laughing all the way to the bank and at the Tesla and Leafs that have to stop and charge on long trips. I think we have the best of both worlds as is.
     
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  8. ClarityDoc

    ClarityDoc Active Member

    I respectfully disagree. I have driven 3700 miles in the past 6 months without adding gas; the Honda engineers are responsible for running the ICE as often as needed, and as long as I do all as Honda advises then I will NOT "remember that this is a gas car..." and will enjoy going as far as the battery will take me, carefree knowing that I have the ICE as backup.
     
  9. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    For us the current Clarity configuration is great for us. It is a trade-off I understand. We live in a small city so it's rare for us to drive more than 30 miles round trip. Being retired we are home most of the time and can charge mid-day. So we get 50-60 miles all EV day after day. So the battery is properly sized for our situation.

    A larger battery would take up more space, be more costly, and be heavier.

    As for the gas tank its okay too. We made a slight logistics change to compensate for the small tank. When on long trips, where we are in HV for hours, we used to make use of California's convenient rest stops for toilet brakes. All we did was alter that plan and now stop at gas stations instead. We always fill up the car at the gas station even if we only need a couple of gallons.

    With 7 gallons and about 45 mpg the car can go for much longer than we can. Potty brakes need to happen after about 2 to 3 hours. At 75 mph given three hours we will have traveled 225 miles, need a potty brake, and the car will take about 5 gallons.

    I just wouldn't want to trade any of this. I suppose an EV range of about 60 miles instead of 47 would be good since the winter temperatures drive the range down, but we have had the car since December 5th 2017 so already made it through a winter without running out of power for our daily runs.
     
  10. Schaffer970

    Schaffer970 New Member

    I think one or two more gallons would be nice. On our longer trips we tend to be a bit tight between our usual stops. I'm happy with the EV range.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Well said, sir!

    Those who want to buy a "gas car" won't be buying a PHEV with a good range; won't be buying the Honda Clarity PHEV or the Chevy Volt.

    If you just want a "gas car" with some EV tech to give it better fuel efficiency, then buy a non-plug-in Prius or other mild hybrid. Those who actually want to reduce or eliminate their use of gasoline (or diesel) to fuel their personal transportation, will buy a PHEV or a BEV.

     
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  13. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    I think Honda got it perfect for my use. So, to the extent I am "typical", they hit the sweet spot with the Clarity PHEV. I note that others have said what I would have said too, the size of the trunk, winter/summer range variation, weight, the cost of the vehicle, and the rebate all figure into the gas/electric balance question. Kudos to Honda for this one!
     
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  14. kcsunshine

    kcsunshine Active Member

    I agree too. I have a 60 mile round trip commute and I don't mind if I use a little bit of gas at the tail end of my drive. For my use, it almost has the perfect balance of everything you said. I only need to fill up approximately once a month and it is only a few gallons. I haven't taken a long time yet but I think it should be adequate without being annoying. I know we all want a few more EV miles or gas miles but something has to give.
     
  15. jray19

    jray19 Member

    I have to say the balance of EV and HV range seems to hit a sweet spot and is why I purchased this car over a pure EV (Bolt) plus the interior and quite ride really sold me. I have a 50 mile daily commute so at purchase time was content with the fact that I would burn a little bit of gas each day, but got spoiled with the summer range of closer to 60 miles EV and no gas except on longer trips. So now as it gets colder I'm missing the all electric commute. For me with that exact commute I would probably want a little more EV range but that is just purely matter of my precise commute distance on weekends the 47 mile range is more than sufficient.
     
  16. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    I also think they got the balance right. I don't have too many trips of the length where the small gas tank causes an extra stop. I'd LIKE both more EV and HV range, but not at a higher cost.
     
  17. DaleL

    DaleL Active Member

    Honda and GM are in a technology sharing relationship. GM expects that by 2020 their battery technology will have a 50% greater storage density at a lower cost. That would mean a 26 KWH battery instead of the 17 KWH in the Clarity. How much more attractive will a Clarity PHEV be with a 72 mile (epa) EV range?

    Our Clarity is a transitional vehicle. Future versions will have longer EV range and the ICE will shrink.

    I was able to drive from Florida to Ohio and back just fine in my Clarity, 2,000 some miles. I got a true 43 mpg as a hybrid at mostly Interstate highway speeds. The 7 gallon tank is just fine.
     
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  18. rockstone

    rockstone New Member

    I have a daily roundtrip of 150 miles to office everyday(unfortunately no charging at the office). Would not have minded have 3 to 4 gallons increase in the gastank, since filling up is going to be a regular occurrence for me, more so that some of the folks on the forum. But i am happy with the mileage and for all what the vehicle offers..
     
  19. Richard_arch74

    Richard_arch74 Active Member

    Audio books candidate, have you considered asking the boss to install a charging station at the office?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app
     
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  20. rockstone

    rockstone New Member

    @Richard.Ha Ha. Not going to work.90% of co-workers are big truck drivers.Just 1 EV and 1 PHEV in a building of 1200 people :(
     
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