Charging station question

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Omgswify, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. Omgswify

    Omgswify Member

    so I just got the good news that my car would be arriving next week and recently I noticed my garage has a NEMA outlet (same one as the one used for the dryer) by the electrical panel. It is a new home and not something I noticed before recently.

    I was wondering if I could plug it directly to my car without installing a charging station? Or should I just use the 120V until I install a charging station ? Thanks for all your help guys.
     
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  3. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    You absolutely cannot plug it in directly. The car won't do anything without exchanging handshaking signals with the EVSE (Electric Vehicle Service Equipment) to maintain safety. The Clarity has to be able to tell the EVSE when it's had enough juice, too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  4. Tahuna

    Tahuna Member

    You can't plug right into the NEMA outlet but, depending on the outlet and breaker and EVSE, you might be able to plug an EVSE into that outlet. I got a Clipper Creek HCS-40P, which plugs into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. I had to pay an electrician to install the NEMA outlet for me, but you may be ahead of the game in that way.
     
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  5. Omgswify

    Omgswify Member

    Ah I see. Thanks for the help guys. Sorry if the question seemed redundant as I’ve never owned an EV.

    As mentioned above, it seems I can just plug n play a charging station since I have an NEMA outlet already.
     
  6. Tahuna

    Tahuna Member

    Probably, yes. You need to make sure that you get an EVSE with a NEMA plug, and that it matches the outlet that you have. NEMA is the National Electrical Manufacturers Association - the organization that sets standards for these things. There are dozens of NEMA plugs (including the ones in your house, assuming you're in the US). My EVSE took a NEMA 14-50, which is a particular configuration of pins, 4 conductors, rated at 50 amps. A already had a NEMA L6-30 plug in my shop for 220V power tools, but that's a 3 wire connector rated at only 30 amps, so it wasn't going to work with my EVSE.
     
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  8. Omgswify

    Omgswify Member

    It says 30 amp as you described for power tools. I assume it is there for power tools, not EVSE. I guess I gotta get one installed. I’m in canada btw, not sure if it makes a difference. Thanks for the feedback!
     

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  9. JJim

    JJim Active Member

    If you don't want to install new Nema 14-50 outlet, you can use that existing 14-30 outlet with a 16A EVSE charger as below, but it will take longer to charge the battery to full (may be 4 to 5 hours)
    https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Compatible/dp/B07C6MZJWK/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531383423&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=nema%2B14-30%2Bevse%2Bcharger&dpPl=1&dpID=51MrdOCSRKL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    If a breaker is 30 amp, you derate it by 20% for continuous use. So 30 x 80% = 24. Thus any EVSE that has a maximum draw of 24 Amps will be fine.
    For example, my ChargePoint is rated at 32 Amps so it has to be on a 40 Amp circuit (breaker, wires, and receptacle) since 80% of 40 is 32 Amps.

    I would suggest that since it appears you have a NEMA 14-30 receptacle and 30 Amp breaker already that you do not get a 16 Amp EVSE because it will not take full advantage of your available power.
    Instead get a 24 Amp EVSE that will charge at the higher 5.8 kWH rate and will cut your charging time down to around 3 hr 45 min. Instead of ~5 hours with the 16 Amp EVSE.

    Here is an example of a ClipperCreek LCS-30p that has the plug you need so you can install it yourself. The 30 in the name means it’s for a 30 Amp circuit and it draws 24 Amp max. Perfect for you and no installation costs. Just attach to wall stud and plug

    https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-20-to-32/lcs-30-24-amp-ev-charging-station?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1t28geSZ3AIVB9bACh2TfgW_EAQYAyABEgIuHvD_BwE

    PS: you can use your GoogleFru to shops around for similar models and perhaps save some money. This was just a quick example I found.
     
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  11. qtpie

    qtpie Active Member

    We bought similar unit like this on Ebay for under $200 and happy with it. Full charge from empty completes in 4.5 hours. Using HondaLink app, we set our charging schedule to start from 2 a.m. to take advantage of the lowest utility rate (13c/kHw). By morning, the car is fully charged for my wife's daily commute (about 48 miles). My wife totally loves this car because she hasn't been to the gas stations since we bought the car.
     
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  13. nymphaeles

    nymphaeles Member

    A clarity comes with a level 1 charging cable, and you'll need a 120VAC, 15A outlet to plug that in. Honda recommends a 240V - 32A for a level 2 EVSE. For that level 2 charging circuit, it needs to be 50A to support the 32A recommendation from Honda. You may want to check your electric panel to see if the circuit breaker is marked 40A or 50A. I'm not a electrician, but I believe the 50A circuit can only safely provides 40A and that fits for your Honda Clarity. As far as the plug is concerned, you need to buy an EVSE that has a plug that fits to receptacle installed in your garage, typically NEMA 14-50 or NEMA 6-50.
    Both Amazon.com and Costco.com has EVSE units on sale that you can get, while Costco.com seems to have better pricing.

    https://www.costco.com/car-electronics.html

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=level+2+charging+station+40+amp&sprefix=level+2+charging%2Caps%2C170&crid=1T36NQLHQ4UFA&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alevel+2+charging+station+40+amp

    Here is Honda official statement on charging
    upload_2018-7-12_8-55-21.png
     
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  14. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    That is not quite correct.
    A 32 Amp EVSE only requires a 40 Amp circuit not a 50 Amp one. Only reason in that case to go up to 50 Amp is if you’re trying to plan for future higher charging in your next car.

    40 Amp downrated 20% for continuous duty is 32 Amp.
    50 Amp circuit downrates to 40 Amp max continuous draw.
    A 40 Amp circuit is what I installed and had a licensed electrician check for my 32 Amp ChargePoint that charges at 7.2 kW per hour.
    I’m all for keeping it in code and safe but not for spending more than you have to if your not trying to ”future proof” which I don’t try because tech is changing so fast we may soon blow by 40 Amp charging.
     
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  15. nymphaeles

    nymphaeles Member

    Again, I'm not an electrician so what I wrote may not be the absolute truth, but solely my opinion. When my electrician explained the options for me, he stated that there are a NEMA 14-30 and a NEMA 14-50, commonly used for household. For the NEMA 14-30, the wires should be 8 gauge and the circuit breaker should be 40A. For the NEMA 14-50, the wires should be copper 6 gauge, and the circuit breaker should be 50A. He also told me that it doesn't comply using a NEMA 14-50 on a circuit breaker rated at 40A.
    The best practice is to check with your local codes or a licensed electrician for your installations & usage.

    upload_2018-7-12_9-31-14.png
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector
     
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  16. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    OP has a 14-30 recepacle posted on his pix. So that’s a 30 Amp breaker and 24 Amp max continuous draw if he doesn’t want to incur any installation costs.
     
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  17. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Active Member


    My understanding is that both you and KentuckyKen are correct. One is correct for hardwiring, the other for plugin. What he describes is the derating and amperage for a hard-wired connection (no plug). There, max continuous load must be 80% or less of the circuit rating. So a 32A charger needs a 40A circuit when hardwired. A 16A charger needs a 20A circuit. This is why the chargers have such odd ratings.

    This could be true for the corded (plug in) versions also, but in practice the manufacturers of the 32A chargers in general put a NEMA-50 (50A) plug on them, that as noted has to plug into a 50A outlet. And if you have a 50A outlet it has to be on a 50A circuit.

    Bottom line: talk to an electrician. But in general you should expect for a 32A charger to get a 40A circuit if hardwired, or “whatever the plug needs” if plug-in (usually 50A).
     
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  18. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Very good points.
    I ran into the lack of plug options when I went with ChargePoint so I just direct wired.
    However Clipper Creek offers their models with a wide range of plugs giving you the ability to match virtually any receptacle/circuit your liable to find.
     
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  19. nymphaeles

    nymphaeles Member

    Very good point.
    I'm just trying to help a member to get the preferable options that will last him a lifetime and that will not cause him any problems either with fire hazard, or code compliance, or when (if) he wants to sell the house at some time in the future.
    Cheers
     
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  20. bpratt

    bpratt Active Member

    I think electric cars are here to stay and they will have larger batteries in the near future. So in planning for future charging of larger batteries, I ran #4 wire which is good up to 70 Amps from the circuit breaker box to my garage and installed a 50 amp breaker. If I purchase a car in the future will a greater charging capability, all I need to do is change the breaker and either hard wire the new charger or replace the plug.
     
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  21. Omgswify

    Omgswify Member

    Wow thanks for all the helpful advice guys! I've yet to ever join a car forum that had such helpful responses to a seemingly obvious answer. It's usually a "search is your friend".

    After much research i've settled on the SCH30P (equivalent to the clipper creek 30A plug-in) due to its portability and ease of installation. You've all provided solid arguments for which route to go. Unfortunately, Ontario has recently cancelled all EV and EVSE rebates (cars will have until September). I chose this route because the current receptacle setup would provide sufficient power for my current Clarity charging needs. I figured that in the future, if I decide to purchase a BEV, I'll probably go the whole nine yards and get the best setup that I could get (ex. 50A and up with smart home features).

    Now if only my workplace had an outdoor charging station (to account for the loss of range in winter monthes) :mad:
     

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