Another day, another Tesla Autocrash

Discussion in 'General' started by TeslaInvestors, May 25, 2018.

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Should Tesla Autopilot be renamed to Autocrash?

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
  3. Let's wait for few thousand more crashes.

    0 vote(s)
  1. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    Last edited: May 25, 2018
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    While we're at it, "crash airlines", "crash trains", "crash motorcycles", "crash bicycles", "crash ladders", "crash guns", and "crash Nike."

    It is your choice, don't buy or use it. I have similar BMW and Toyota safety systems and have no problem with using them. For example, today our Prius Prime had a car pull in front and "BRAKE" showed up. I applied the brake no where near ABS range. That is because I'm an adult who takes driving responsibility seriously. I don't blame the tool. In fact, the tool did exactly as expected.


    He also complained about his suspension and/or steering making noises a few days ago. It could be mechanical failure.
    Tesla Model 3 Road Trip
    Sunday May 20 2018

    A TON of noise now coming from the suspension, cracking and clacking sounds every time the steering is turned even 10 degrees to one side. But, no support from service centres so thoughts and prayers only for now. Hope the car doesn't fall apart!

    Bob Wilson
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  4. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Wow, I read You You's report, here is a guy who clearly knows the autopilot limitations, and had 1 hand on the wheel, and the car cut hard into the barrier... This same thing has happened to others, unfortunately they did not live to tell the story.

    Here is You You's report from his facebook.

    ... guys this is it. The road trip is over. I'm sorry.

    Vehicle was engaged on Autopilot at 120 km/h. Car suddenly veered right without warning and crashed into the centre median (edit: divider at the exit fork). Both wheels (edit: one wheel) completely shattered, my door wouldn't even open correctly. I'm unharmed.

    Update 00:29 - policeman responding on scene is a fan of the Model 3, go figure. I'm just stating the facts in my post. My insurance is third-party only, which mean...

  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

  6. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    I highly doubt a failed tie rod end led to this accident. I have seen them loose and wobble, but they do not break unless poorly designed.
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Fortunately the Teslas are well instrumented. If a log analysis shows no effort to steer the car except to correct to the opposite side, a mechanical failure becomes more likely.

    Bob Wilson
  9. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Either way I think Tesla will have some responsibility for the outcome, they manufactured a product that failed in a catastrophic way in the warranty period, or if Autopilot did as You You described and turned hard, even with his hand on the steering wheel. Lets wait for some investigation to get real results before we argue... As a betting man, I bet You You will have a new car before this goes too far...
    bwilson4web likes this.
  10. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    At least it didn't burst into flame. (There is always a silver lining if you look for it)
  11. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    True... Looks like a pretty glancing impact actually certainly not the head on that happened on the 101 in CA, but the lead up to the accident sounds awfully familiar, the car tried to adjust to the exit, and missed... I am really curious to read the full report when the investigation finishes.
    bwilson4web likes this.
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  13. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    Yes, this would not have affected the batteries much. It may be that the vast majority of even serious collisions will not affect the batteries much, and the car will turn out not to be any more dangerous than any other, but given the autopilots refusal to recognise stationary objects in the road I wouldn't put money on it...
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  15. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Agree... Thats exactly what I think happened...
  16. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I don't blame Tesla particularly. I think the whole notion of 'driverless cars' is nonsensical with existing technology. I think the people developing these things have failed to fully grasp the problem, let alone the solution. They have severely underestimated the complexity of the task. That you and I can do it without effort is the result of many millions of years of evolution and doesn't in any way imply it is a trivial task to automate. It isn't. Assuming that a bunch of beady-eyed code monkey can do better than millions of years of development is an absurd thing to do.
  17. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Agree... I think Most companies understand the complexities of self driving, Tesla has tried to minimize it, and they and their customers pay a dear price for the confusion.
  18. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    Well, Tesla may or may not be worse than the others, but I think they are ALL at fault for foisting this particular gimmick on the public. I think telling people to keep an eye on the thing because it could lose the plot at any time is an admission of defeat. Also I think neural networks which are rather more successful at this task than a formal rule-following algorithm is a further admission of defeat of those attempting to automate the task of driving. Neural networks are not engineered in the sense that strong assurances can be given about the strength of the procedure and the validity of the supporting argument etc.

    Nobody knows how they work, or the reasoning behind neural network's actions. To me, putting people's lives in the hands of such systems is criminally irresponsible. The blunt truth is that if you don't understand what makes them tick, they can do ANYTHING. It is not engineering at all, it is 'contrapting', and I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole!
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber


    Tesla Model S and Model X buyers who brought a lawsuit against Telsa had their day in court — and it looks like they’ve won. On Thursday, Tesla agreed to settle with the buyers who said the optional Autopilot driver assistance system was “essentially unusable and demonstrably dangerous,” Reuters reported.

    Relying on what they claimed was misrepresentation by the company, the buyers spent $5,000 for automated emergency braking, side collision warning, and the Autopilot software. In the lawsuit, the owners said the features were “completely inoperable.”

    The settlement agreement refers to the time delay in activating the Autopilot features but does not address the issue of safety raised by the claimants.

    Looking forward to the details.

    Bob Wilson
  20. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Yes, this was an earlier class action on AP 2, but this is not the lawsuit that could be the most damaging to Tesla. I think Tesla got off pretty easy on this one, but still, they had to defend it, which adds to their net cost. I have a close friend that is Chief Counsel for a Fortune 100 company, and has followed this closely, he felt Tesla is very exposed on several fronts, and Elon's tweeting can be very damaging to the legal position of the company. He felt the legal department at Tesla must cringe every time a tweet goes out...
  21. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    I started a new post for this one... Looks like an older model S, Is this one AP1?
  22. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    Yup. It's like giving a loaded gun to a suicidal person. I never drive near a Tesla. If I see one in my rear view, I move over.

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