32A vs 40A charger for Clarity

Our 4.5 year old Siemens charger broke away from the wall today. It only had a plastic mounting system and it cracked. Looks like it is time for a new charger! I am thinking Clipper Creek this time. There sure are a lot more choices than there were in 2013, and they are all cheaper, too.

Edit: I went with the Siemens again. The fact that it was about $150 cheaper helped with that decision, but I bought a 4 year Squaretrade warranty to go with it this time.

 

I haven't looked (I have Jekayla) but someone wrote there is an O ring in the handle that when removed made it mush easier to insert (mine's indoors so I may look into that this weekend).

 

I think I want to compare it to my 110 charger - if it doesn't have the O ring, then I'm pulling mine to see what happens.

 

That's the answer then - because mine will never be plugged in outdoors anyway...

 

I'm torn between spending some money to upgrade the outlet and install a level 2 charging station in my garage, in advance of my Clarity purchase. I have a short commute and would rarely have the need for fast charging, although would be really nice to have!

How long is the level 1 cord that comes with the Clarity?

 

I recently built and mounted an OpenEVSE 40A level 2. I checked this morning and the plug has the orange O-ring and it is definitely tight going in.

I'm wondering that too. The O-ring is at the very end of the plug, yet resistance when plugging in occurs at the start, before the O-ring is in contact with the charge port. So I don't think it is really the O-ring that is the culprit; rather a slight difference in the thickness/tolerance of the plug for some chargers compared to the stock plug.

 

I believe the stock cord is 15 feet long by rough estimate. I can measure when I get home. I would say try going without the Level 2 for a short time to see if it works for you.

I'm usually charging overnight as well so I don't necessarily need the speed of a level 2 charger. But I added a 240 V outlet and purchased a L2 for the following reasons:
1. Dedicated high current wiring just for EV charging, rather than running an extended 12Amp current through possibly worn household wiring.
2. Charging at 240V is more efficient than at 120V by about 10-15%. Double the voltage means you can halve the current for approx. the same power output, and a lower current means less energy loss from resistive heating.
3. I see our family going full EV in the years to come, so it's a worthwhile investment for the long-term.

I actually have my OpenEVSE set for a low charge current (I've been trying both 10 or 12 Amps) for overnight charging just to eek a bit more efficiency out of the system and (possibly) helping to extend the battery life of the car, since it was purchased, not leased.

 

I have (virtually) no patience, so I wanted a faster charge and higher efficiency, both of which are accomplished with L2 240v - and future proofing. Besides, if we even just get the 2020 Clarity or CR-V (with 80-100 mile EV range, hint, hint) I will still be able to charge both vehicles in a timely fashion.

 

Thank you very much for the information! You make some very valid points that not only assist in the decision, but provide input as to an excellent solution when I do get an electrician to do the work. I actually have a deposit on a Model 3 although my wife prefers an SUV. Regardless of the vehicle, I would certainly prefer to have both vehicles PHEV and/or EV. I'm actually glad the Model 3 has taken so long to get produced because I don't know if I would be happy with a vehicle that is solely battery. We drive to Florida a few times per year and although the supercharger network makes it doable in a Tesla, it will add a significant amount of time to the trip. Now, if they ever get to the point where the cars drive themselves, then I'm good with adding some time and sleeping in the backseat, haha!

 

Quick charging your compatible phone is known to damage its Li ion battery compared to "slow" charging. People do it anyway because the batteries are generally cheap enough to replace that it's worth the shortened life. Given that the Clarity battery will cost many thousands to replace (does anyone know the actual figure?), does anyone know if it's better for the battery to just use the 110 v charger that came with the car? I don't think Honda will replace the battery if it loses 50% of capacity quickly during the warranty period so going from 47 miles to 24 (less in cold weather) would really reduce the appeal of the car.

 

TL&DR; skip to very bottom for Honda's recommendation!

Here's my thinking (as a rechargeable laptop battery user since 1986): they built this car to be driven; L2 charges are the industry standard compared to L1 or Superchargers; they gave no warnings or precautions about the type of charger; GO FOR IT.

That may appear to be reckless, but if they want these cars to go mainstream they have to be drive-able under ordinary circumstances. Here's what Honda says about charging:

Clarity Plug-In Hybrid offers two ways to charge:
• Level 2 (J1772) charging is the fastest, most convenient and least expensive way to keep your vehicle charged. Level 2 charging gives you the flexibility to charge your battery in just 2.5 hoursQMeritChargingor Amazon.com to find EVSE installation services in your area.

• Level 1 charging is also an easy way to charge, using any compatible 120-volt wall power outlet. Use the required charging cord that comes with the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid, plug in and fully charge your battery in twelve hours.*

Look which one is first - L2 (which requires 240v/32a to get 2.5 hour recharge times) - I'd take that as my signal to use L2. They have an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery if excessive loss.

High Voltage Battery Capacity Warranty:
Gradual capacity loss of the high voltage battery is expected and not covered under warranty. Greater than normal degradation is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles, and can be determined by an authorized Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid dealer.

It may be the lawyer coming out in me, but no one knows what "gradual capacity loss" is, and if it is the L2 charger that is seriously damaging to our batteries, they have a real problem on their hands from their recommendation of L2 charging.

Just found this in the FAQ at Honda which seals the question for me - "Honda strongly recommends installing L2 (240V) charging equipment at your home if possible.":

 

If Honda recommended anything less than Level 2 I would say they are in over their heads with selling plug in vehicles. But they aren't. Battery degradation is real and will happen to your car, but I believe battery technology has improved to make it less of an issue than, say, 5 years ago at least, and it isn't nearly as big of an issue in a phev as a full ev car. Also, remember when the Prius first came out and people were freaking out about battery failure and how much it would cost in just a few years to replace your battery? I don't know how many Prius' have had battery issues, but I believe it is almost nonexistent.

 

I have the capability of setting the charge current with the OpenEVSE, and I've been testing with charging at the lowest setting (10Amps), which allows for an ~2.4kWh charge rate (less actual due to energy transfer loss). But I'm hoping that this gives me just a little bit more efficiency (you lose more energy with higher current) and since I'm letting it charge overnight it's not like I'm waiting around for the car to finish charging. A full charge would take less than 7 hours at this rate, so plenty of time to remain within the super off-peak TOU electrical rates. A side benefit is (I hope) prolonging the battery life of the car, though as others have pointed out it seems that Honda is willing to back the long-term reliability of the battery with its warranty, though I'm a bit leery of the vagueness in Honda's "Greater than normal degradation" for warranty coverage.

It's the same principal I follow for all my device batteries, and why I avoid quick-charging my phones unless I need it. Will I see any tangible results 5 years down the line with the Clarity's battery? Maybe, and maybe not. But since it doesn't impact my usage of the vehicle in any way, why not?

 

Knock on wood, but my daughter and son in law are running on hand me down Prii (2009 and 2011) with 148,000 and 78,000 miles respectively. From all the studying I did in my OCD Prius days, Toyota runs the battery pack between 20-80% of capacity, and it looks like the Clarity, Volt, etc. are trying to do the same thing to maintain Li leveling. In fact, newer laptops will let you choose (generally in BIOS) to operate in that same band to improve battery lifetimes.

 

So, I have the Clarity plugged in to a ChargePoint 240V charger at work, but it still says on Hondalink that it will take 2 hours and 40 minutes to a full charge from 73%? That doesn't make sense, does it?

 

Does charge point show you the charge amps/rate? My home chargepoint EVSE does. The only thing I notice is when the battery is cold it charges at about 4 kw. At normal battery temperatures it is 7.1 or 7.2 kw.

Is that the Honda App? My wife complains about it a lot. The ChargePoint app should tell you the rate its charging. The 2 hr 40 min might be a bug or something.

I get a full charge in about 1 hr 55 min.

Eric