Price gouging? Here's who should know...

It looks like the Kia Niro EV is starting to sell under MSRP in the Seattle area.

https://www.kiaofeverett.com/new/KNDCE3LG4N5144346.htm?utm_source=cargurus.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cargurus_listings

 

Nice to see even if for a Niro EV

 

Although I can imagine reasons why an EV buyer would not want a Tesla, I find it hard to think of a good one (reason, that is) after looking at this thread. Of course, I'm shocked, shocked, shocked at the dealer markups and failure to honor contracts, but at some point -- maybe at the beginning -- one has to look at the value proposition.

FWIW, I nearly bought a Nissan Leaf, in 2019, until I realized that a fully tricked-out one would cost more net (after taxes, rebates, depreciation) than a Model 3. If the Tesla had cost twice as much, I would have bought two Nissans (or Konas... whatever). But that wasn't the case, and I have no regrets. That basic Model 3 is still trouble-free and a lot of fun to drive, and I wouldn't bother with anything but the basic version, although YMMV.

I took delivery last month of the Model Y I ordered last August. Let's be honest: even though it's objectively faster and has a longer range and is quieter (wind and road noise), it's not as much fun to drive as the Model 3 (which my wife allows me to look at and, sometimes, to wash).

The price of the Model Y from Tesla, where there's no negotiating possible and no dealer add-ons or other markup, was $56,290, including $1,000 for white upholstery and $1,200 for destination and documentation fees. There are small incentives remaining in California, but if the clean air provisions of the old BBB act are passed, there might be an additional $7,500. Even without it, though, the value proposition is very strong and, as of last month, Tesla offered 6-year financing at 2.49%.

Did I mention resale value?

My only gripe is that I'd rather have a smaller (especially: narrower) car for city parking. Maybe the Model 2 in a few years.

 

Well, everyone can have their own opinion on which EV they like the best (with price likely being one of many aspects being considered).

 

I love my small, agile, quick (although not Tesla quick) MINI Cooper SE. If you're looking for a fun EV, there is no competition. The Chinese version coming for 2024 will probably offer more range, if 114 EPA miles (130-140 miles for some owners) isn't enough (thanks to COVID, I rarely require more than my Honda Clarity PHEV's 47-mile EV range).

 

Actually, it is the same situation for Hyundai Inoniq 5 buyers. If you look at the Ioniq 5 forums you will see hundreds of complaints about Additional Dealer Markup pricing. They even made a list of dealers and markups nationwide. As an example, of the dozens of dealers in the state of California, only 2 will sell at MSRP and of course, they have limited stock as their cars sell as soon as they get off the truck. One dealer lists it on his website - $20,000 "market adjustment".

 

Forgetting the fact that I would like a Tesla Model Y very much…here are my top reasons for not ordering/getting one. Most will discount my reasons as being silly; however, for me, these items will constantly gnaw at me no matter how fast the car is and for the life of me cannot understand why some of these items, especially, #1 & 2, are missing from the Model 3 & Y.

1. SiriusXM Satellite Radio (Bluetooth via the phone app, IS NOT A SOLUTION) If not hardware based then it should be app based and use the internet connection like it does for Spotify etc.
2. No Ventilated Seats. (Essential in Florida especially, since the glass roof has no retractable shade)
3. Glass (Panoramic) Roof luv it…but, no retractable shade. Give me #2 and it becomes less of an issue (part of the reason the IONIQ 5 Limited with the vision roof & retractable shade appeals more to me than the EV6 wide sunroof)
4. No Apple CarPlay (is it absolutely necessary…no but, c’mon)

I have a few other minor things but, #1 & 2 keep me from pulling the trigger.

 

I test rode an EV6 yesterday and asked for a quote afterwards. Autotrader listed this car as $53K but the quote was for $69K. At the minimum the dealer is guilty of false advertising.

This was the third dealer I went to yesterday. The allotments of all the other dealers where gone. For the first dealer I went to, the car sold while I was on the drive over there.

When I got the $69K quote I said goodbye and walked out. The sales manager came running after me in the parking lot asking me what I didn’t like about the quote. I told him for starters the quote was more than $15K above MSRP.

He said, “But look I’m giving you a $4K credit and I’m giving you top dollar on your trade in”. Since this was a lease quote I asked him where was the $7,500 federal tax credit. He said that you only get the federal tax credit if you buy the car.

Since I had already leased two EVs previously, I new this was a bold face lie and at this point I was starting to lose my composure. I told the sales manager to, “Get away from me”, and he backed off. He called later and left a message stating that he was willing to work the deal, something I now have no interest in doing.

I got a $9,100 credit below MSRP on my Niro EV. I was expecting a similar deal on an EV6. I hadn’t seen this thread previously so I didn’t know dealers markups were through the roof. But still, the dealer’s bait and switch was unconscionable.

This dealer was a 40 mile drive away and I had to fight a real bad traffic jam to get there. I don’t believe I would have even tried to get to that dealership if I had known what kind markup they were adding. I am glad a got a close look at EV6 though.

I guess the dealer actually did me a favor. I’m not really ready to make the plunge and I’m not sure I could have contained myself if I hadn’t got such a horrible deal. I really want something more like the EV9 and maybe this is just the world telling me to wait.


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The $7,500 federal EV tax credit is a tax credit. You claim it on your end-of-year taxes and if you owed $7,500 or more for that year's taxes, you are credited $7,500 that you don't have to fork over. If you didn't buy the car, you cannot claim the tax credit.

Perhaps for other EVs you've leased the dealer took $7,500 off the total lease payments to make the sale? Dealers aren't yet discounting EV6s to make the sale. Perhaps if supply ever catches up with demand they will be more eager to bargain. If they won't tell you the price over the phone, you can expect them to have added markups and non-optional, expensive add-ons they'll reveal after you take the time to drive there.

 

The finance company gets the $7,500 tax credit on a lease and, if they don’t pass it on to the leasee, that’s another $7,500 mark up on the car. Anyone that doesn’t demand the a $7,500 credit on a lease is either desperate or a fool.


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So yes, your leasing company took the $7,500 off the lease to make the sale--and you didn't have to wait to file your taxes--or owe more than $7,500 in taxes--to get the benefit. Again, we're back to the supply and demand equation and right now EV6 dealers can call the shots when it comes to what you have to pay.

 

Sorry for the rant.

Kia Napoli in Milford, CT have one sitting outside in low teens since arrival and asking price is 80k!

Sales guy told me go get a Tesla when I complains about the 30k mark up.

I wrote to my rep in my state asking the ability to have direct sales from manufacturers.

These dealers are digging their own graves.


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As far as I know Kia do not own their dealers in the US therefore I suspect as elsewhere your contract is with the dealer and not Kia. Check the terms of the contract. The Kia reservation agreement is very clear that "Dealer will make an offer to you to purchase or lease a Vehicle. The Selected Dealer will determine the selling or lease price for the Vehicle (as well as the price for any options you may select for the Vehicle), which price may differ from the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (“MSRP”) for the Vehicle, and the other terms and conditions of the offer to purchase or lease a Vehicle. Please note that MSRP does not include taxes, title, license, destination, options and other dealer fees and charges." Therefore Kia US take no responsibility for the price the dealer charges

 

Thirty thousand dollars on a $50K vehicle is a new and very impressive record dealer markup on the EV6 AFAIK. Percentage-wise that even beats out the dealer who is marking up the $102K Mercedes EQS by $50K. I'm sure Kia wants to build enough EV6s to catch up with demand, but producing EVs is tough in these days of supply-chain failures.

Dealers employ lobbyists who "persuade" state legislators to tailor local laws to benefit the dealers. That's their strategy to stay above ground--if not above board. Michigan laws prevent factory-direct sales of vehicles to consumers. Listening to the legislators who created these laws try to explain their benefit to consumers makes one laugh.

 

I hope people realize that we are getting abused and tell the politicians to stop this madness.

These dealers are inflating the inflation even more.


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Exactly. Getting the $7,500 credit on a lease for a qualifying vehicle is routine, and if the dealer isn't giving it to you, you're being gouged.

 

It is ridiculous how dealers are protected by state laws. On the books for decades and strong lobbys. Their advantage is why they are very much perturbed by direct to customer sales models like Tesla which will destroy their business model if adopted across the industry .

It is time to lobby state legislatures to make a change, or force it from the federal level. The rationales of the 1930s and 50s when three manufacturers dominated franchisee options (and even then according to the FTC provided benefit to consumers) are not valid anymore. It was really successful state legislative lobbying the built the current consumer-predatory market model . It is time to kick those laws to the curb.


https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2720&context=articles

 

And how are politicians supposed to do this? Your country believes in the free market even in life or death health situations so merely overcharging on a non essential like a car seems not to be a major concern.