time based fee ban

[Murry]

In order to get full charging speed, the battery temp needs to be at least at 25C/77F.

You can achieve that by accelerating rapidly a few times (more than a few, in fact), maintaining high speed for a while, or simply forcing a powerful regen for a while.

And that's applicable to Konas with battery heater as well (I know because I have one). So if I want a good charging speed in winter, I need to drive like a maniac. I think that's because of a poor design by Hyundai of the battery heating system. It never works so that you can get maximum speed.

 

[R P]

My wife just got a nasty surprise after she unplugged and drove away from a Chargepoint 6 kW charger. She got an email that said she was charged $9.09 for 1 hour 49 minutes, 43 miles, and 10.68 kWh. This is at a pool (Surrey Newton) where she has taken our daughter swimming many times before and it was always free. My wife did not see a sign about it not being free anymore (not that she was looking for it), but thought it kind of strange that all 6 stations at that location were available. They were always busy before, and sometimes she was not able to get a spot.

When she got home and told me, I looked up Plugshare, and no mention of it not being free anymore, so I gave ChargePoint a call. The guy on the phone was very nice, but said that on the Chargepoint site it does mention the new charge rate. Apparently, they just implemented time based charging at $5 per hour. I always just use Plugshare, but I guess it is not always up to date. Anyway, he offered to refund the amount, and I thought was very kind and gracious of him. Lesson learned, though,... chargers may not always be free forever.

But I still think the amount is kind of excessive. For $9.09 I can go a lot further than 43 miles with my ICE car!! I don't think a lot of people will be using that charger.

I noticed also that our local new Petro Canada fast charger is no longer free either, .27 per min now. Won't be charging there anymore...

Anyway, happy to still be able to say, have yet to pay for a charge, since May 1, 2019 and 15K+ kms later. At least our local charger (just a few blocks away) is still free.

 

[electriceddy]

My wife just got a nasty surprise after she unplugged and drove away from a Chargepoint 6 kW charger. She got an email that said she was charged $9.09 for 1 hour 49 minutes, 43 miles, and 10.68 kWh. This is at a pool (Surrey Newton) where she has taken our daughter swimming many times before and it was always free. My wife did not see a sign about it not being free anymore (not that she was looking for it), but thought it kind of strange that all 6 stations at that location were available. They were always busy before, and sometimes she was not able to get a spot.

When she got home and told me, I looked up Plugshare, and no mention of it not being free anymore, so I gave ChargePoint a call. The guy on the phone was very nice, but said that on the Chargepoint site it does mention the new charge rate. Apparently, they just implemented time based charging at $5 per hour. I always just use Plugshare, but I guess it is not always up to date. Anyway, he offered to refund the amount, and I thought was very kind and gracious of him. Lesson learned, though,... chargers may not always be free forever.

But I still think the amount is kind of excessive. For $9.09 I can go a lot further than 43 miles with my ICE car!! I don't think a lot of people will be using that charger.

I noticed also that our local new Petro Canada fast charger is no longer free either, .27 per min now. Won't be charging there anymore...

Anyway, happy to still be able to say, have yet to pay for a charge, since May 1, 2019 and 15K+ kms later. At least our local charger (just a few blocks away) is still free.

That is insane! Turns into the better part of $1/kWh including charging losses. Thanks for the heads up- I hope you left a check in so Plugshare can be enlightened of this and the general public who might require those stations are made aware of the actual cost

 

[R P]

That is insane! Turns into the better part of $1/kWh including charging losses. Thanks for the heads up- I hope you left a check in so Plugshare can be enlightened of this and the general public who might require those stations are made aware of the actual cost

No, I have never used that feature, although have often read others' comments. Will have to look into how to do that.

But yeah, that is a crazy rate, and at a location where you would expect them to be friendly to EVs (they used to be). I wonder how long it will stay at that rate, given that not many are likely to charge there.

 

[ehatch]

Sorry but it likely was just cold batteries, the BMS doesn't allow full juice until the pack is around 75F. With ambient at 40F , without a battery warmer and regardless how heavy your driving was I doubt very much your pack was anywhere close to that.

@echeck makes a good point as driving at higher speeds does warm the Li battery.Also underscores why time based is theft because the charger isn't calibrated to dispense actual kWh.So if an EV needs to "pre condition,"it's still NOT getting the maximum charge rate,yet charged for it.I was at a fairly reliable Chargepoint 50kWh DCFC,and I watched my Kona pre condition for about 5 minutes before ramping up to ~47kWh. SOC was about 20%.I had just driven about 120km/74miles at equivalent speeds to keep with traffic flow,weather was near 0C/32F. Given my consumption at such speeds, ~18kWh/100km,the battery wasn't cold. Another reason time based is theft,if I need to got to 90%.At around 50kW,I am now about 24kWh from about 40kWh as an example. Charge example,-3C/26F,I drove about 7km/4miles at city speed to the DCFC,so the battery wasn't "warm"given the temperature.

 

[hobbit]

Apparently there was a lot of immediate industry backlash about the
California change, and there's a newer update about it at Electrek. Worth
reading both, in order. Sorry if it's old news; I did try to search for prior mention.

The dismaying thing is that the present CA DMS ruling, likely to become part
of the template for other states, allows the networks to continue the bad
practices on the old gear almost indefinitely [because in EV years, 2033
might as well be next century].

The hopeful thing is that the message *is* nonetheless reaching the network
operators even if they choose to blow it off. EVGo is evidently changing
to kWh billing in some places; I didn't research up a whole matrix of where
but perhaps someone else knows.

The thing is, the counterarguments by the charging networks are ALL so
much bullpuckey. The DCFC charging units are already perfectly capable of
counting kilowatt-hours, even if it's not down to the nanojoule, and
displaying those on stations and invoices RIGHT NOW. They could easily
use that as a far more fair basis for billing. At that point it's just
a question of software, which can likely be provisioned remotely without
even so much as a truck roll, and is certainly not going to cost anyone
the $16 million to "upgrade equipment" that they're fabricating. Even
if it was that much, it would be one of the best apportionments of the
$2B or whatever from the VW settlement in EA's particularly notable case.

Maybe Tesla can't immediately display running energy delivery with their
present gear, but they're coming up with a workaround. The others already
have the full capability, so it's time for them to stop crying poormouth.

So call your charging networks and KEEP COMPLAINING, especially if you're
using them on a regular basis. Give them some of these links, show them
the driver community's pitchforks and torches and tell them to get
serious about listening.

_H*

 

[ericy]

EVgo just opened some 100kW chargers near my office. Still time based, but half the cost of EA.

 

[ehatch]

Apparently there was a lot of immediate industry backlash about the

The thing is, the counterarguments by the charging networks are ALL so
much bullpuckey. The DCFC charging units are already perfectly capable of
counting kilowatt-hours, even if it's not down to the nanojoule, and
displaying those on stations and invoices RIGHT NOW. They could easily
use that as a far more fair basis for billing. At that point it's just
a question of software, which can likely be provisioned remotely without
even so much as a truck roll, and is certainly not going to cost anyone
the $16 million to "upgrade equipment" that they're fabricating. Even
if it was that much, it would be one of the best apportionments of the
$2B or whatever from the VW settlement in EA's particularly notable case.

Maybe Tesla can't immediately display running energy delivery with their
present gear, but they're coming up with a workaround. The others already
have the full capability, so it's time for them to stop crying poormouth.

So call your charging networks and KEEP COMPLAINING, especially if you're
using them on a regular basis. Give them some of these links, show them
the driver community's pitchforks and torches and tell them to get
serious about listening.

_H*

Just DC charged for 70 minutes,SOC was about 45%.Using Electrify America rate $0.21,plus $1 access,it's over $15.70/34.61kWh .If on EA,I would be looking at a portion of the charge costing $0.58 because of the over 75kW charging speed the kona briefly hits.Call your politicians because it's ridiculous to be gouged when $B subsidies go to oil.Charging providers don't care because they know it's a free for all.Just contacted my federal rep.,and asked them what would happen if a Prius PHEV had to pay an access fee,plus ~$6/1.5Gal/6L. for gas. Tesla MCU does show kW,kWh,and how long it will take to reach set SOC.Billing kWh would be accurate ,and transparent.