Model S loses to Taycan... Again...

Not surprised. The Taycan is a Porsche. They've been building Sportscars since forever. Tesla building a fast EV doesn't mean it's just going to leave everyone in the dust. There's more to that and Porsche definitely has experience.

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Esprit1st said:
Not surprised. The Taycan is a Porsche. They've been building Sportscars since forever. Tesla building a fast EV doesn't mean it's just going to leave everyone in the dust. There's more to that and Porsche definitely has experience.

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Agree, Porsche is a premium sports car, but Tesla is willing to push battery, motor, and hardware harder than anyone else (nothing to lose), but as we can see from their recent Nurburgring tests, Tesla's are not reliable when pushed.
 
"as we can see from their recent Nurburgring tests" using a sample of 2 cars gives us a good statistics about the reliability of David Green's most despised car manufacturer.
 
Porsche has been racing their cars in the pro racing circuit since the 1960s, and the Taycan is built to be, primarily, a high-performance sports car. So it certainly ought to do fairly well on the race track!

Contrariwise, Tesla is brand new to track racing, and the Model S is built primarily to be a luxury (or "premium") family sedan, and only secondarily as a performance car.

The comparison in question here is between the current "Raven" trim level of the Model S, which isn't at all intended to be run on a track. Why would anyone be surprised that the Taycan would beat the "Raven" Model S in pretty much every category involving racing or handling? Hello! The Model S is not a sports car.

Of course, what really has grabbed the interest of the public, and especially motor sports fans, is the competition between the Taycan and the prototype "Plaid" Model S that Tesla is developing for a sponsored run at the very challenging Nürburgring "Green Hell" race course.

If Tesla can demonstrate that the "Plaid" Model S can beat the Taycan there, then that will be quite embarrassing for Porsche. However, there needs to be a level playing field. The "Plaid" Model S was equipped with semi-slick wide racing tires for its first attempt at the 'Ring, and the Taycan was run on stock tires -- or at least that's what is claimed, and I haven't seen anyone claiming otherwise.

Personally, I don't regard the previous 'Ring track time of the Taycan as definitive, and perhaps it's not the best that Porsche can do. In fact, I'd love to see a series of one-upsmanship attempts at lap times, or even better a series of head-to-head matches on various tracks, between the two cars! The publicity would be good for both Tesla and Porsche, and also for the EV revolution as a whole.
 
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Frank K said:
"as we can see from their recent Nurburgring tests" using a sample of 2 cars gives us a good statistics about the reliability of David Green's most despised car manufacturer.
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Well, If we look at Consumer Reports, Tesla is near the bottom on reliability on all 3 of their products, there are others that track the same statistics, with nearly the same results (some worse), that coupled with Tesla 100% Nurburgring failure rate, is enough for me to form an opinion when it comes to Tesla building a sports car...
 
David Green said:
...as we can see from their recent Nurburgring tests, Tesla's are not reliable when pushed.
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Right, because in its entire history of racing since the 1960s, no car belonging to Porsche's racing team(s) has ever broken down or been wrecked during a race, or during development, or when being prepped for a challenging track race or lap time.

Oh, wait...
:rolleyes:

 
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Right, because in its entire history of racing since the 1960s, no Porsche sports car or race car has ever broken down or been wrecked during development, or when being prepped for a challenging track race or lap time.

Oh, wait...
:rolleyes:
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Why do you have such a blind bias towards Tesla,... when you don't even own one?? Facts don't seem to matter to you.
 
R P said:
Why do you have such a blind bias towards Tesla,... when you don't even own one?? Facts don't seem to matter to you.
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How can you be so completely blind to your own anti-Tesla bias? Or are you just trolling here?

In case you have forgotten, this is an EV forum. Most people are here to share what they know about electric cars, and learn from others. Very clearly "David Green" has a virulent anti-EV agenda, or at least a virulent anti-Tesla agenda, which is very nearly the same thing. Since you keep praising his comments, that rather pointedly questions your agenda, too.

Tesla is doing far more than any other auto maker to push the EV revolution forward. In fact, Tesla is doing more than all the other auto makers in advancing the EV revolution!

How can anyone claim to be interested in EVs, let alone an advocate for EVs, without being a strong Tesla fan? That's as bizarre as claiming you're a connoisseur of scotch, just not that crap made in Scotland!

R P said:
Facts don't seem to matter to you.
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I guess that's just intended to make me angry, because it's very obviously precisely the opposite of the truth.

I regard myself as a seeker of Truth. When someone corrects me on my facts, I thank them. Have you ever done so? No, I think not.
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Both David and own EV cars and have experience driving Tesla cars. So I think our opinion matters a little more than yours.

The only troll here is you. Whenever we talk/quote facts, you have to jump in with your inexplicable bias towards Tesla. I think you do it just for sport.
 
R P said:
Both David and own EV cars and have experience driving Tesla cars. So I think our opinion matters a little more than yours.
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And yet, very clearly I know a lot more about EVs and EV engineering than either of you, despite that handicap. That must be quite embarrassing for you, and perhaps explains at least a small part of your hostility and your anti-social comments here.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
And yet, very clearly I know a lot more about EVs and EV engineering than either of you, despite that handicap. That must be quite embarrassing for you, and perhaps explains at least a small part of your hostility and your anti-social comments here.
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Yeah, the internet has no shortage of self proclaimed experts...
 
David Green said:
...Tesla 100% Nurburgring failure rate, is enough for me to form an opinion when it comes to Tesla building a sports car...
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Gosh, I didn't know that a breakdown when pushing a racing prototype hard on a challenging race track was a "failure". :rolleyes: I dare say that no racing car developing team regards that as a failure, either.

Duh! Pushing a performance car until something breaks is part of the development process. It's amazing that you don't know that.
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R P said:
Yeah, the internet has no shortage of self proclaimed experts...
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Yup, and you're one of 'em. I have never, ever claimed to be an "expert" on any subject related to EVs or the auto industry. But then, one doesn't have to be even remotely close to being an expert to know more than bloviating, conceited blow-hards.
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How about we focus on the topic versus discussing who knows how much about EVs?

I think we pretty much all agree that Porsche has lots of experience with race cars and Tesla doesn't, so it's not surprising that Porsche has built a very capable car if it's taken to the racetrack. Tesla has to and will learn on that topic.

And I agree that it will be interesting to see how it works out. A head to head race would be interesting once Tesla has a car ready to do that.

BTW, Elon has always been "dreaming" with his statements claiming things that take a while until they are actually true. He definitely has a vision, and that's great!

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Good thing I'm not in the market for a Model S or the Taycan.

I've got my SR+ Model 3 and it works perfectly fine. In fact so impressed, I've sent another $6,000 to my favorite crook, Elon, paying for past, current, and future improvements to my car. Meanwhile, time to make some popcorn.

Bob Wilson
 
interestedinEV said:
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@Esprit1st, Congratulations, you have managed to do something that I thought was impossible, get @Pushmi-Pullyu and @David Green to actually agree on at least one thing. :)
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Sorry, I do not see the posts of PP as I blocked him quite a while back (I have to sign out to see his posts) making his conversations one sided, it seems he likes to show his knowledge in the one sided conversations? I find it pointless to discuss with people whose main source of information is "Google" rather than having personal contacts and experience.

I liked this comment specifically because I would rather focus the conversation on the topic at hand instead of insulting the poster, and name calling.
 
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