Premature range loss

I wonder how battery degradation will show in a Kona. Based on what I read, the Nissan Leaf will no longer charge to 100% if the battery loses capacity. I wonder if this is the same on the Kona or if it will still charge to 100% but have less range. On the Kona, it is kind of tricky as the GOM will show a range based on your driving history while other EV'a will show range based on charge % regardless of driving style. If I drive aggressive for an entire charge, the GOM may show 200 mile range and if I take it very easy, it will show 340 mile range. It is hard to tell if the loss in range is due to environmental condition, battery degradation or changes in driving style.
Not sure if the battery will still charge to 100% if the battery goes bad.
 
BlueKonaEV said:
I wonder how battery degradation will show in a Kona. Based on what I read, the Nissan Leaf will no longer charge to 100% if the battery loses capacity. I wonder if this is the same on the Kona or if it will still charge to 100% but have less range. On the Kona, it is kind of tricky as the GOM will show a range based on your driving history. If I drive aggressive for an entire charge, the GOM may show 200 mile range and if I take it very easy, it will show 340 mile range. It is hard to tell if the loss in range is due to environmental condition, battery degradation or changes in driving style.
Not sure if the battery will still charge to 100% if the battery goes bad.
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Interesting! On both my Leafs it just took a shorter time to reach that 100% year after year:( with less and less range ( until Nissan installed installed a software update which gave the GOM a substantial range boost that I feel was to counter Warranty replacements due to the 70% capacity warranty).
I hope Hyundai doesn't go there and just shows actual degradation in real time.
Best to document your recent benchmark as reference and keep eye on consumption / mileage stats as time progresses.
 
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electriceddy said:
I turned it off when he said " no plug in Hybrids are capable of rapid charging" @ 2:36 , anyone heard of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV:
https://www.mitsubishicars.com/outlander-phev/2018/specifications
Note charging time 25 minutes using CHAdeMO for a 12kWh pack
Click to expand...
Yoj should watch the video anyways. The video pre dates the Mitsubishi phev. He is incredibly accurate in explaining how and why lithium batteries change slower near full etc. When you read the drivel on here about what people think about batteries you realize just how ignorant people are to why and how batteries even work.
 
electriceddy said:
Interesting! On both my Leafs it just took a shorter time to reach that 100% year after year:( with less and less range ( until Nissan installed installed a software update which gave the GOM a substantial range boost that I feel was to counter Warranty replacements due to the 70% capacity warranty).
I hope Hyundai doesn't go there and just shows actual degradation in real time.
Best to document your recent benchmark as reference and keep eye on consumption / mileage stats as time progresses.
Click to expand...
I didn't know that. I read somewhere that Nissan's warranty on the battery was based on bars lost on the charging gauge.. However, if it still charges to 100% even with lost capacity, I wonder how warranty claims are handled.
 
BlueKonaEV said:
I didn't know that. I read somewhere that Nissan's warranty on the battery was based on bars lost on the charging gauge.. However, if it still charges to 100% even with lost capacity, I wonder how warranty claims are handled.
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The update was suspected of changing the algorithm of losing the 9th bar (of 12 total)

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...battery-capacity-loss-covered-by-warranty-now
Lots of discussion on this , the last straw that turned me away from Nissan:)
 
Before I decided to buy the Kona, I had a long conversation about their US battery warranty. The person I talked to was very helpful and several times verified with his managers about questions I asked. I asked about the scenario where capacity drops to 65 percent, if I'll get a new battery and it was confirmed to me that this is the case..
 
Colin Munro said:
This is a very interesting Blog re battery charging



Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Click to expand...


You right about the Outlander all be it that it’s correct me if I’m wrong a max is 22kw, That’s really not what it was about though he is a electrochemist and what he says about battery tech can’t be so easily dismissed because of his opinion on PHEVs



Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
BlueKonaEV said:
I wonder how battery degradation will show in a Kona. Based on what I read, the Nissan Leaf will no longer charge to 100% if the battery loses capacity. I wonder if this is the same on the Kona or if it will still charge to 100% but have less range. On the Kona, it is kind of tricky as the GOM will show a range based on your driving history while other EV'a will show range based on charge % regardless of driving style. If I drive aggressive for an entire charge, the GOM may show 200 mile range and if I take it very easy, it will show 340 mile range. It is hard to tell if the loss in range is due to environmental condition, battery degradation or changes in driving style.
Not sure if the battery will still charge to 100% if the battery goes bad.
Click to expand...

I think it’s got to be remembered that early leafs worked on older battery technology also Nissan didn’t indeed still don’t use active battery management whereas the Kona use more up to date tech and active management


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
ehatch said:
I would read about battery capacity at Battery University[ note figure 6] because it's really helpful. GM's Bolt EV owner's manual actually wants customers to charge to 100% as often as they want. ideally charge to 65-75% ; 25-85% will help with avoiding degradation.

79ZvxAc.jpg
Click to expand...
I analyzed those numbers and I'm not sure if I understand them correctly..
If I interpret them correctly, you actually get more miles out of your car if you charge to 100% from 25% every time.
Here is my calculation:
Let's say that a driver gets an average of 4.5 mi/kwh. Charging from 25% to 100% therefore will get you 216 miles between charges.
After 4000 charging cycles, you have travelled 864000 miles..
Now, if you charge at 65% up to 75%, you only use 6.4 kwh between charges which gets you to 28.8 miles between charges.
Now, if you charge 4000 times, you have travelled a total of 115200 miles. Am I wrong??
I'm more interested in looking at degradation on a per miles travelled perspective and not on charging cycles. If you travel more miles per charge, you will charge less times.. Maybe I'm not interpreting those numbers correctly...
 
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BlueKonaEV said:
I analyzed those numbers and I'm not sure if I understand them correctly..
If I interpret them correctly, you actually get more miles out of your car if you charge to 100% from 25% every time.
Here is my calculation:
Let's say that a driver gets an average of 4.5 mi/kwh. Charging from 25% to 100% therefore will get you 216 miles between charges.
After 4000 charging cycles, you have travelled 864000 miles..
Now, if you charge at 65% up to 75%, you only use 6.4 kwh between charges which gets you to 28.8 miles between charges.
Now, if you charge 4000 times, you have travelled a total of 115200 miles. Am I wrong??
I'm more interested in looking at degradation on a per miles travelled perspective and not on charging cycles. If you travel more miles per charge, you will charge less times.. Maybe I'm not interpreting those numbers correctly...
Click to expand...
I think what they are implying is charging more often with short cycles will over period of time will enable better capacity retention. Obviously the
75% to 65% cycle is ridiculous , but the 75% to 45% is a lot more realistic and the closer to 50% resting voltage seems to provide the best duration of the pack from their studies.
 
electriceddy said:
I think what they are implying is charging more often with short cycles will over period of time will enable better capacity retention. Obviously the
75% to 65% cycle is ridiculous , but the 75% to 45% is a lot more realistic and the closer to 50% resting voltage seems to provide the best duration of the pack from their studies.
Click to expand...
My point is that you will run through a lot more charging cycles if you charge less total %.
So, if you charge 30% of charge each time, you will charge twice as often as someone who charges 60% of battery capacity every time. Of course, battery retention will be lower on the car charging 60% after the same number of charging cycles but that car will have travelled twice the distance on half of the number of charges. I personally plan on charging 20 to 100% at home and 20 to 80% on DC Fast..
 
ehatch said:
I would read about battery capacity at Battery University[ note figure 6] because it's really helpful. GM's Bolt EV owner's manual actually wants customers to charge to 100% as often as they want. ideally charge to 65-75% ; 25-85% will help with avoiding degradation.

79ZvxAc.jpg
Click to expand...

Based on this chart, I have started to charge every other day when the battery is down to about 60 percent and I charge to 80%.. I will only charge to 100% if I'm planning a longer trip.. Charging to 80% is giving me plenty of range, even if I do any extra trips. Hopefully, my battery will last long.
 
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BlueKonaEV said:
Based on this chart, I have started to charge every other day when the battery is down to about 60 percent and I charge to 80%.. I will only charge to 100% if I'm planning a longer trip.. Charging to 80% is giving me plenty of range, even if I do any extra trips. Hopefully, my battery will last long.
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I am usually 45% to 75%, but today I cheated a bit when I needed the range and went all the way to 85%. (Still haven't charged to 100%) I find the DCFC charge rate gets a little slow (22kW) after about 75% - yawn
 
electriceddy said:
I am usually 45% to 75%, but today I cheated a bit when I needed the range and went all the way to 85%. (Still haven't charged to 100%) I find the DCFC charge rate gets a little slow (22kW) after about 75% - yawn
Click to expand...
Do you manually stop ay 75%. The charge limit setting only allows 10% intervals..
 
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