Finally, PHEVs get a little respect: interesting article about their future

[KentuckyKen]

Here’s an interesting article about the future of PHEVs as we drive down the road to a future of EVs over gasmobiles.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwi...er-lose-out-to-flexible-hybrids/#9be8a735f2de

Can’t wait to hear the responses from the Clarity Brain Trust.

 

[RickSE]

It’s amazing how many car brands are listed as offering phevs. Too bad Honda doesn’t offer one.

 

[MajorAward]

“The U.K. withdrew PHEV support because people never plugged them in, benefitting the environment not at all. Consequently, although plug-in hybrid sales have been rising, their market share has been dropping since 2013,” IDTechEx said.
This statement from the article may be true, but it just doesn't make sense that someone buys a plug-in hybrid, and then does not plug it in.

 

[jdonalds]

I knew from the moment I read about the Clarity it was the right answer for us. All electric around town. 8 to 12 trips out of town per year in HV mode. Charge at home convenience. Charge with roof solar. Avoid petrol/gas price fluctuations. Can't beat this setup.

If we had a 300 mile BEV it would be wasted around town. Too much battery-range/weight/cost for our daily needs. Then on long road trips we'd have to locate charge stations and wait for long charge times. A BEV will make sense to me when it has about 200 miles of range and can be recharged in less than 15 minutes.

 

[DucRider]

“The U.K. withdrew PHEV support because people never plugged them in, benefitting the environment not at all. Consequently, although plug-in hybrid sales have been rising, their market share has been dropping since 2013,” IDTechEx said.
This statement from the article may be true, but it just doesn't make sense that someone buys a plug-in hybrid, and then does not plug it in.

Fairly common on lower range PHEV's (not so much the Clarity and Volt).
The incentives (Federal and State), sometimes combined with cheap lease deals by manufacturers looking for ZEV credits, can mean a PHEV is substantially less than the non plug-in version. My niece had a Fusion Energi lease in CA for something like $135 a month (IIRC), and had nowhere to plug it in at home (apartment) or work. The standard hybrid Fusion would have been substantially more.
The Plug-in Prius (predecessor to the Prime) was sold primarily in CA and something like 80% of those polled said they got it solely because of the Car Pool sticker and never bothered to plug it in (all electric range on the EPA rating was 0-6 miles, and it could not reach freeway speeds in EV mode)
Many of the PHEV's designed for the Euro market have 10 - 15 miles of EV range or less (BMW, Mercedes, mini)

And that article contains some assumptions that have been proven untrue or based on questionable studies (the Emissions Analytics study ignored upstream CO2 for gas/diesel production and counted only tailpipe emissions - but compared it to electricity generation CO2 on BEV's).
And that old tired dog "the grid would collapse if everyone had an electric car".

 

[jray19]

Well I have 14222 miles and have used 71.987. Here is my math 72 gallons of gas x 42 mpg = 3024 miles on gas. 14222 total miles - 3024 gas miles = 11198 miles electric / 110 mpge = 101.8 gallon equivalents. 101.8 electric gallons and 72 gas gallons = 173.8. 14222 miles / 173.8 gallon equivalents = 81.83 mpg so it seems like we are getting darn close with the Clarity PHEV and this is a 2018 model. If I took the time to charge at work during the winter I could have save about 30 gallons of gas and had a 91.6 mpg nearly reaching the 2030 standard.

 

[Dan Albrich]

I have a close friend with children. They looking for a 3 row SUV. I would ask them to look at Pacifica plugin hybrid mini-van but the mom isn't into mini-vans. They looking at Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

Anyway, the question is if there is a 3 row SUV plugin hybrid that exists? I got excited to see mitsubishi outlander, but that one (plugin) may only be 5 seats.
Thoughts welcome. And if they get a highlander hybrid maybe that is the best available. Don't know.

-Dan

Oh and forgot to add: Thank you KentuckyKen for once again posting a great article!

 

[DucRider]

I have a close friend with children. They looking for a 3 row SUV. I would ask them to look at Pacifica plugin hybrid mini-van but the mom isn't into mini-vans. They looking at Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

Anyway, the question is if there is a 3 row SUV plugin hybrid that exists? I got excited to see mitsubishi outlander, but that one (plugin) may only be 5 seats.
Thoughts welcome. And if they get a highlander hybrid maybe that is the best available. Don't know.

-Dan

Oh and forgot to add: Thank you KentuckyKen for once again posting a great article!

Range Rover P400e is due out shortly and will offer 5+2 seating and ~30 miles AER.

 

[MajorAward]

Fairly common on lower range PHEV's (not so much the Clarity and Volt).
The incentives (Federal and State), sometimes combined with cheap lease deals by manufacturers looking for ZEV credits, can mean a PHEV is substantially less than the non plug-in version. My niece had a Fusion Energi lease in CA for something like $135 a month (IIRC), and had nowhere to plug it in at home (apartment) or work. The standard hybrid Fusion would have been substantially more.
The Plug-in Prius (predecessor to the Prime) was sold primarily in CA and something like 80% of those polled said they got it solely because of the Car Pool sticker and never bothered to plug it in (all electric range on the EPA rating was 0-6 miles, and it could not reach freeway speeds in EV mode)
Many of the PHEV's designed for the Euro market have 10 - 15 miles of EV range or less (BMW, Mercedes, mini)

And that article contains some assumptions that have been proven untrue or based on questionable studies (the Emissions Analytics study ignored upstream CO2 for gas/diesel production and counted only tailpipe emissions - but compared it to electricity generation CO2 on BEV's).
And that old tired dog "the grid would collapse if everyone had an electric car".

Interesting. What you wrote, citing examples, does make sense. Not sure I would plug in every day either, if the best I could hope for was six miles. Well, I probably would, but I get why 80% wouldn't.

 

[MPower]

The Plug-in Prius (predecessor to the Prime) was sold primarily in CA and something like 80% of those polled said they got it solely because of the Car Pool sticker and never bothered to plug it in (all electric range on the EPA rating was 0-6 miles, and it could not reach freeway speeds in EV mode)

I owned a 2012 Plug-in Prius (5 seats) and bought and ran it in Vermont for 6 years until it went to live in Kansas. The distance on all electric was about 9 miles depending on the hills and speed. It would do all electric on the interstate up to 62 mph, but who would do that when it wouldn't last long. I would save it for around town. It was kind of like driving a Clarity only in miniature.

These hybrids are gateway vehicles. When my daughter's 2006 Prius became unreliable, she started thinking about getting a minivan because of the two children and big dog, etc. When she started shopping, and saw the gas mileage, she choked. Now she has the 2012 Prius Plugin. I will have to hang on to my Clarity for dear life.

 

[ab13]

I have a close friend with children. They looking for a 3 row SUV. I would ask them to look at Pacifica plugin hybrid mini-van but the mom isn't into mini-vans. They looking at Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

Anyway, the question is if there is a 3 row SUV plugin hybrid that exists? I got excited to see mitsubishi outlander, but that one (plugin) may only be 5 seats.
Thoughts welcome. And if they get a highlander hybrid maybe that is the best available. Don't know.

-Dan

Oh and forgot to add: Thank you KentuckyKen for once again posting a great article!

Volvo XC90 T8, but like most upscale brands, this is twice the cost of Highlander.

 

[Mowcowbell]

I owned a 2012 Plug-in Prius (5 seats) and bought and ran it in Vermont for 6 years until it went to live in Kansas. The distance on all electric was about 9 miles depending on the hills and speed. It would do all electric on the interstate up to 62 mph, but who would do that when it wouldn't last long. I would save it for around town. It was kind of like driving a Clarity only in miniature.

These hybrids are gateway vehicles. When my daughter's 2006 Prius became unreliable, she started thinking about getting a minivan because of the two children and big dog, etc. When she started shopping, and saw the gas mileage, she choked. Now she has the 2012 Prius Plugin. I will have to hang on to my Clarity for dear life.

There is a PHEV minivan available... the Chrysler Pacifica. Offers about 33 miles EV range.
https://www.chrysler.com/pacifica/hybrid.html

 

[MPower]

There is a PHEV minivan available... the Chrysler Pacifica. Offers about 33 miles EV range.

My daughter won't put up with that when you actually have to lay out cash money for it. She will run the 2012 Prius Plugin until it is moribund and then start looking raptor-like at the Clarity.