I found the same thing. They told me the preferred trim is for sure order only and it would take 6 to 8 weeks. I have seen at least online that the ultimate trim is available at some lots.
Kona EV Canada Sales?
I found the same thing. They told me the preferred trim is for sure order only and it would take 6 to 8 weeks. I have seen at least online that the ultimate trim is available at some lots.
eastpole
Active Member
I cannot manipulate a touchscreen while driving a car. Especially not when controls for a heater and defroster are quite well handled by touch on physical switches, sliders, and similar controls. Since you are a Jedi, you may not feel the same way. I, however, cannot drive with the Force. Doesn't seem safe to try to learn on the public highways with a bunch of other people who are also manipulating touchscreens.
PS: Kona Electric has the controls almost entirely built around physical switches, except for things that you don't typically want or need when in motion.
I cannot manipulate a touchscreen while driving a car. Especially not when controls for a heater and defroster are quite well handled by touch on physical switches, sliders, and similar controls. Since you are a Jedi, you may not feel the same way. I, however, cannot drive with the Force. Doesn't seem safe to try to learn on the public highways with a bunch of other people who are also manipulating touchscreens.
PS: Kona Electric has the controls almost entirely built around physical switches, except for things that you don't typically want or need when in motion.
Well, I'm a Jedi-to-be, so not quite there yet.
But yeah, I'm surprised you can't voice-control everything on the M3
ajstjacques
Member
I personally drove the M3 performance for a 3 days roadtrip from Montreal to Quebec in January during the big week-end storm and -30c temps and I saw 1/2 range reduction at highway speeds and heater at 19c.
I really loved the driving experience, the space and the autopilot feature of the M3, but it doesn't feel like it was made for winter at all, and is kind of a pain with the handle situation when they are frozen, same thing with the charge port. The car refused to unlock the charge port so I had to wait with the rear seat down so heat could make it back to the drunk and reheat it. I'm pretty sure I heard that they had a new part that to fix that particular issue and that new cars should have it. And that even people with older M3s could have it changed for free if they complained enough.
I was too struggling to decide between the M3 and the Kona (and people seems to think that since I'm a tech nerd, I should have got a M3) but there's plenty of downsides of owning a Tesla cars that people doesn't see right away, and owners only seem to push the obvious upsides (that are mostly applicable to all EVs). For example, the access to parts for repairs, or the low amount of "authorized" body shops make it so the repair are super long and expensive. This results in a higher insurance cost (for me it was quite a lot, almost 2k/y vs 1.2k/y for my Kona Ev Ultimate). There is also the fact that Tesla is also against right to repair, so they won't necessarily give you parts if you want to fix something and save a few bucks. Also, the tire sets are quite more expensive since their performance/premium sizes and you might go through even more because of that sweet EV torque.
So in the end, I chose the Kona and I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I wish it would have a little bit more space for the rear passengers and for the trunk. It's really less spacious than the model 3, specifically for a tall person, even in the driver seat, since the floor is raised, but overall it seems like a solid car and one I will keep for at least 5 years.
I really loved the driving experience, the space and the autopilot feature of the M3, but it doesn't feel like it was made for winter at all, and is kind of a pain with the handle situation when they are frozen, same thing with the charge port. The car refused to unlock the charge port so I had to wait with the rear seat down so heat could make it back to the drunk and reheat it. I'm pretty sure I heard that they had a new part that to fix that particular issue and that new cars should have it. And that even people with older M3s could have it changed for free if they complained enough.
I was too struggling to decide between the M3 and the Kona (and people seems to think that since I'm a tech nerd, I should have got a M3) but there's plenty of downsides of owning a Tesla cars that people doesn't see right away, and owners only seem to push the obvious upsides (that are mostly applicable to all EVs). For example, the access to parts for repairs, or the low amount of "authorized" body shops make it so the repair are super long and expensive. This results in a higher insurance cost (for me it was quite a lot, almost 2k/y vs 1.2k/y for my Kona Ev Ultimate). There is also the fact that Tesla is also against right to repair, so they won't necessarily give you parts if you want to fix something and save a few bucks. Also, the tire sets are quite more expensive since their performance/premium sizes and you might go through even more because of that sweet EV torque.
So in the end, I chose the Kona and I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I wish it would have a little bit more space for the rear passengers and for the trunk. It's really less spacious than the model 3, specifically for a tall person, even in the driver seat, since the floor is raised, but overall it seems like a solid car and one I will keep for at least 5 years.
Apparently Tesla is bringing out its own insurance in the states. Not sure about Canada.
And not sure what tires are on the SR+, but we would prolly swap in all-weather tires on any car.
Another $$ issue is resale value if you plan to sell in a few years.
But guesstimating that is really a crap shoot.
1/2 range reduction at -30C and hwy speeds sounds about right for many BEVs
And not sure what tires are on the SR+, but we would prolly swap in all-weather tires on any car.
Another $$ issue is resale value if you plan to sell in a few years.
But guesstimating that is really a crap shoot.
1/2 range reduction at -30C and hwy speeds sounds about right for many BEVs
regarding insurance, I did a quick simulation with Belairdirect
Tesla M3 SR+: 640$ (780$ in including vehicle replacement by a new one in case of major damage)
Kona EV preferred: 510$ (615$ in including vehicle replacement by a new one in case of major damage)
while there's a difference, it's not major, next stop, check on tire prices (winter tires are mandatory during winter in Quebec)
Tesla M3 SR+: 640$ (780$ in including vehicle replacement by a new one in case of major damage)
Kona EV preferred: 510$ (615$ in including vehicle replacement by a new one in case of major damage)
while there's a difference, it's not major, next stop, check on tire prices (winter tires are mandatory during winter in Quebec)
XtsKonaTrooper
Well-Known Member
Its all fine and dandy, till something breaks down and then a nightmare with service centers. Repairs under insurance could be tricky and time consuming.
At least, with the Kona, there are Hyundai dealers everywhere. As for knowledgeable techs, cars nowadays almost self diagnose themselves now.
At least, with the Kona, there are Hyundai dealers everywhere. As for knowledgeable techs, cars nowadays almost self diagnose themselves now.
R P
Well-Known Member
My son has an M3 and I just bought a Kona Ulitmate. He paid 80K CAD for his, incl auto pilot (needed for ACC and some of the safety driver assist), and has the upgraded leather interior. Yet it looks cheap inside (compared to the Kona) with hard non-perforated leather which is not ventilated. First long drive with him (to Whistler) my butt was sweaty and uncomfortable. With almost everything on that center monitor I don't think he drives for 5 min without poking it and looking/changing something. It is a big distraction in my opinion. It is also really hard to get in and out of with the seats being so low and the door and roof (really have to duck low) in a very awkward position.
He has the 75 kWh battery and gets just over 500 kms with a full charge (basically same as my Kona). But it seems to lose range quickly, more than the kms driven (opposite with my Kona so far). He can't make it out to Whistler and back, and has to stop in at the Squamish Supercharger (not free for M3s) to get a bit of charge to make it home without running low. And M3s can't use the BC Hydro fast chargers (most of which are free at this time). To be fair, it was winter driving, and I still haven't done that same trip with my Kona, so can't say for sure it is better.
I will say the M3 has more power, although the Kona is surprisingly good, too. But the M3 is rear drive and has better traction on take-off (Kona FWD chirps when you initially floor it). And probably the M3 is more tempting to use that power and drive faster than the Kona.
However, considering everything, especially price, I would choose the Kona. The M3 seats and that stupid center monitor would be show stoppers for me.
He has the 75 kWh battery and gets just over 500 kms with a full charge (basically same as my Kona). But it seems to lose range quickly, more than the kms driven (opposite with my Kona so far). He can't make it out to Whistler and back, and has to stop in at the Squamish Supercharger (not free for M3s) to get a bit of charge to make it home without running low. And M3s can't use the BC Hydro fast chargers (most of which are free at this time). To be fair, it was winter driving, and I still haven't done that same trip with my Kona, so can't say for sure it is better.
I will say the M3 has more power, although the Kona is surprisingly good, too. But the M3 is rear drive and has better traction on take-off (Kona FWD chirps when you initially floor it). And probably the M3 is more tempting to use that power and drive faster than the Kona.
However, considering everything, especially price, I would choose the Kona. The M3 seats and that stupid center monitor would be show stoppers for me.
R P
Well-Known Member
Well, it depends what you mean by efficient. The Tesla co-efficient drag is less, so that might help it more at hwy speeds. But the Kona drive train and battery might be more efficient. Haven't seen any hard data myself to prove that either way. My initial anecdotal experience certainly makes my Kona look good, to me, at least. But more time and experience will tell.
RP, with the $80K price tag it sounds like your son's Tesla 3 is the AWD long range variety.
With the AWD and dual motors, that's a luxury sport sedan with quite different seating and performance compared to the Kona.
EPA rates the Tesla 3 AWD LR as 499km range and your Kona as 415km range. 17% less.
The EPA combined efficiencies are similar with the Kona having better city efficiency (132 vs 120 MPGe),
and the Tesla 3 AWD LR having better highway efficiency (112 vs 108 MPGe).
I understand that the rear motors in the Tesla 3 are extremely efficient (and are being put in the higher end models).
Perhaps that's why the rear drive Tesla 3 Std Range + has a highway efficiency of 124 MPGe, perhaps the highest currently available.
How these two cars compare in winter driving is another issue. Prolly more data is needed there.
With the AWD and dual motors, that's a luxury sport sedan with quite different seating and performance compared to the Kona.
EPA rates the Tesla 3 AWD LR as 499km range and your Kona as 415km range. 17% less.
The EPA combined efficiencies are similar with the Kona having better city efficiency (132 vs 120 MPGe),
and the Tesla 3 AWD LR having better highway efficiency (112 vs 108 MPGe).
I understand that the rear motors in the Tesla 3 are extremely efficient (and are being put in the higher end models).
Perhaps that's why the rear drive Tesla 3 Std Range + has a highway efficiency of 124 MPGe, perhaps the highest currently available.
How these two cars compare in winter driving is another issue. Prolly more data is needed there.
R P
Well-Known Member
Nope, the 80K (incl tax) is not AWD, but pretty well every other option available, incl a set of winter tires/wheels (very expensive). Everything is more expensive with Tesla, incl simple things like roof racks. Auto pilot (which is needed if you want ACC) is extra. Kona Ultimate comes with a lot of what would be extra options on the Tesla.
The Kona may be rated at 415, but obviously we get a lot more than that as has been proven with experience. At 80%, my range is 400, which extrapolates to 500 at 100% (have not yet charged to that yet). My son's M3 says 415 at 80%. Most he has got at 100% is 525.
But he seems to use up range faster than my Kona does (vs driven kms). Of course we know lots of things affects range, eg climate control, outside temps, driving style, hwy vs city, etc. I have only had my Kona since May 1, and my driving has been mostly city so far. So I am a little reluctant to even make these anecdotal comparisons so early. However, I am very encouraged by my early Kona experience.
As for winter experience, the Tesla is not good in snow, even with the winter tires. He had a bad experience up at Cypress when he encountered a lot of snow there one morning in the parking lot. He had trouble making it up a slight incline, and was doing a lot of spinning. What was particularly troubling though, is that no walking bystanders would help him with a push. That is unheard of, as it is very common courtesy to give a push to someone to help them out in snow. I think he was snubbed because he was driving a Tesla.
The Kona may be rated at 415, but obviously we get a lot more than that as has been proven with experience. At 80%, my range is 400, which extrapolates to 500 at 100% (have not yet charged to that yet). My son's M3 says 415 at 80%. Most he has got at 100% is 525.
But he seems to use up range faster than my Kona does (vs driven kms). Of course we know lots of things affects range, eg climate control, outside temps, driving style, hwy vs city, etc. I have only had my Kona since May 1, and my driving has been mostly city so far. So I am a little reluctant to even make these anecdotal comparisons so early. However, I am very encouraged by my early Kona experience.
As for winter experience, the Tesla is not good in snow, even with the winter tires. He had a bad experience up at Cypress when he encountered a lot of snow there one morning in the parking lot. He had trouble making it up a slight incline, and was doing a lot of spinning. What was particularly troubling though, is that no walking bystanders would help him with a push. That is unheard of, as it is very common courtesy to give a push to someone to help them out in snow. I think he was snubbed because he was driving a Tesla.
XtsKonaTrooper
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^
They didnt hear the engine revving, when he was stuck. Hehehe
They didnt hear the engine revving, when he was stuck. Hehehe
Well then that Tesla 3 must be the short-lived LR rear drive model, which is no longer for sale.
According to my notes, it was selling for C$60.5K + $5K (?) for autopilot. So maybe C$66+tax + options.
In Ontario, the tax alone would put that up to C$75K. So maybe $4k of options.
Currently you can get the AWD LR Tesla 3 version for C$68K+tax.
And all current models include autopilot by default.
The rear drive LR model, with the big battery pack but only a single high efficiency motor, also had the highest EPA range of the Tesla 3's: 523km.
The nice thing about the EPA ranges is that they are not anecdotal and can be compared across vehicles.
But they do only apply to the EPA test conditions. In particular, winter driving is not measured.
And, anecdotally, there does seem to be some differences between different BEVs in winter driving.
I'm surprised that he had so much trouble in the snow with winter tires.
With the battery weight spread out in BEV's (50:50 for the Tesla IIRC), rear wheel drive shouldn't be an issue, as it is with front engine ICE cars. But perhaps the issue was just too much snow. Dunno what the Kona's clearance is relative to the Tesla 3. But the Tesla is definitely more of a sports car so it might be lower.
EDIT: Just checked. Kona EV has 6.2" ground clearance, Tesla M3 only 5.5"
We cannot decide between a the cheaper Kona Preferred (C$46K) and Tesla 3 SR+ (~C$55K).
If we want to spend the $$ on a luxury, low-slung, sports car with a large back seat area, then it's the Tesla.
If we want a taller, less costly CUV then the Kona wins.
Luckily there's no rush: our existing 2011 C$23K Cruze Eco is still running fine and giving almost 40 mpgUS in the summer.
So we are in "wait-and-see" mode.
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R P
Well-Known Member
My son got one of the early M3's in Canada, last June. I think his pre-order went in as soon as it was available to order. He had to wait a long time. But he is putting lots of kms on it, 44K so far, in less than year.
It certainly is no luxury car, only in people's minds. There's good reason why Musk is dropping the price on these...
If you can wait, going to be a lot more great EV options in the next few years, from Toyota/Subaru, Hyundai/Kia, and others. I am not sure what will happen to Tesla long term. They definitely have some issues and challenges going forward. Maybe Apple will buy them out...
But for right now, hard to beat the Kona EV.
It certainly is no luxury car, only in people's minds. There's good reason why Musk is dropping the price on these...
If you can wait, going to be a lot more great EV options in the next few years, from Toyota/Subaru, Hyundai/Kia, and others. I am not sure what will happen to Tesla long term. They definitely have some issues and challenges going forward. Maybe Apple will buy them out...
But for right now, hard to beat the Kona EV.
Just an update...my preferred Kona came in this past weekend (Ontario) after waiting a little over two weeks. From what I gathered it mainly had to do with asking for basically any colour (we aren't picky) and luck that maybe someone cancelled their order or something.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
R P
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there's no way I would have bought an EV now, if it wasn't for that new fed subsidy. Our old Prius was still good for a few more years, and was willing to wait.
Not sure what your electricity costs are there now in Ont, but have heard they are higher. Here in BC, they are still pretty low, and thank goodness, that Site C dam is still going ahead. So even without subsidies in the future, I think the economics for EVs will get better as battery technology/prices continue to improve.
I know this is controversial, but I like Norway's approach. Sell their oil (they are 3rd largest world exporter), which gives them lots of money for social programs, and encourage/subsidize EV adoption.
The other thing I would like to see here, is the govts incentivize home solar installations, like they do in Australia. We have solar at our cabin, but it is a very small system, and not cheap.
Not sure what your electricity costs are there now in Ont, but have heard they are higher. Here in BC, they are still pretty low, and thank goodness, that Site C dam is still going ahead. So even without subsidies in the future, I think the economics for EVs will get better as battery technology/prices continue to improve.
I know this is controversial, but I like Norway's approach. Sell their oil (they are 3rd largest world exporter), which gives them lots of money for social programs, and encourage/subsidize EV adoption.
The other thing I would like to see here, is the govts incentivize home solar installations, like they do in Australia. We have solar at our cabin, but it is a very small system, and not cheap.
Wildeyed
Well-Known Member
The first numbers I've seen anywhere on the sales of the Kona EV in Canada. 1163 units.
https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/tesla-model-3-hyundai-kona-ev-electric-cars- canada/amp/
https://electrek.co/2019/06/04/tesla-model-3-hyundai-kona-ev-electric-cars- canada/amp/