Tesla is three years ahead of all its competitors

Tesla's anticipated market share of US market for new cars/trucks in 2023.

  • Less than 10%

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • 10% or greater but less than 20%

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • 20% or greater but less than 30%

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 30% or greater but less than 40%

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 40% or greater but less than 50%

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • 50% or greater

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Total voters
    6
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Yup, I don't think Panasonic has any particular advantage in its chemistry over Samsung or LG Chem. But Tesla certainly has an advantage over other auto makers outside China, in that Tesla alone is in control of the volume of its own battery cell supply. The advantage of that is becoming ever more clear, as auto maker after auto maker fails to ramp up production of newer BEVs which are much in demand. The Ioniq Electric, the I-Pace, the e-Tron, and other BEVs could be made and sold in far, far higher numbers if the auto makers had an adequate supply of battery cells.
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Tesla announced the Powerwall many years back but there was really no attempt to go after that market in a big way due to capacity constraints. Elon has acknowledged that Powerwall was starved of batteries as cars had priority, but now they can supply more packs to the Powerwall manufacturing. This conceivably could increase volumes of batteries manufactured and push down the cost even further. Solar city is losing market share but it may time that Solar City gets some attention from leadership as this will help the company overall.
 
I am biased because I own a Standard Range Plus Model 3. I bought the car because it out classes the Hyundai IONIQ that I can not even buy in Alabama. I can not drive Hyundai’s PowerPoint engineering study to keep my family fed and safe.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
I am biased because I own a Standard Range Plus Model 3. I bought the car because it out classes the Hyundai IONIQ that I can not even buy in Alabama. I can not drive Hyundai’s PowerPoint engineering study to keep my family fed and safe.
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Okay, Bob, I'll bite: What are the qualities of the Ioniq (I presume you mean the Ionic Electric, the BEV?) that cause you to describe it as an "engineering study"?

I'd call the Volkswagen XL1 an "engineering study", and it astonishes me that VW actually put it into production. Admittedly very limited production (reportedly limited to 250 units), but nonetheless they made more than just a few units of the car.

The XL1 is a case of extreme engineering for maximum fuel efficiency; "L1" refers to the 1-liter fuel tank. The XL1 has minimal interior comforts, the engine noise is very loud due to lack of sound deadening; the ride is harsh. The passenger's seat in this 2-seater is offset. Altho it is positioned beside the driver's seat, it's out of alignment; pushed back so far that one review claimed it's impossible to carry on a normal conversation between driver and passenger because the driver has to turn his head so far to see who he's talking to.

Definitely not a car you'd buy for the sheer pleasure of driving, nor for any practical purpose, since it's not even useful for dates with your significant other!

XL1_2.jpg


volkswagenxl1.jpg
 
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SRM3+_IONIQ.jpg

  • Half the HP
  • Only 300 lb lighter
  • Less than half the range
  • Nearly identical drag-power curve
My hard requirement was 120 mi range to reach Nashville but the Hyundai has only 127 mi EV range. But it has never been offered outside the CARB states. At least the similarly toothless LEAF and gutless BOLT could be bought.

We are keeping a 2014 BMW i3-REx which with a 168 hp rear wheel drive is the Tesla backup. We happily traded in our 2017 Prius Prime for the Model 3.

For 28 years, Toyota designed every bit of fun out of their Prius, Echo, and Camry. We’ve had three Prius models and my studies revealed Toyota had emasculated it. The EPA data suggests Hyundai did the same to the IONIQ.

<gerrrrr>

Bob Wilson
 
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gooki said:
10 years ahead on software
7 years ahead on electronics
5 years ahead on charging
3 years ahead on powertrain
3 years ahead on battery
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Well, I can say that unless the other manufacturers get together to compete with Tesla's supercharger network, they will not catch Tesla. I am biased mind you. I own a Model 3 MR. At one point I was considering a Bolt, but I bought the Model 3 instead for a bunch of reasons and I am super happy with my choice. That said, a few weekends ago we took the Tesla from the NE Indianapolis to SE Michigan to see some family. It was about a 700 mile run from beginning to end in 2 days. It was super cold and we ran through freezing rain, snow ice and general slop which was not the best conditions for EV's and efficiency. We used superchargers the entire trip and were back on the road in no time flat. The longest we were at a supercharger was maybe 30 - 40 minutes while we ate. The hotel we stayed at had a Tesla destination charger in Ann Arbor, MI that was performing like my home charger. The Tesla reported it at 208v - 30amp which was fine to charge it while we slept.

If I had a Bolt for the same drive, I would have had to use regular level 2 chargers which would have made that same trip take an unacceptably long time since there are no DC fast chargers that I could find on plugshare along the same route.

Jag, Porsche, Hyundai / KIA, GM, Polestar and everyone else can come out with all the "Tesla killers" they want and they might be great cars, but until you can actually drive them farther than 200 miles without waiting many many hours to charge away from home, they can't catch on.

I know "Electrify America" is supposed to be building a DC fast charging network, but as of Feb 2019, they had just over 105 stations with 465 chargers vs 1441 Tesla stations with 12,888 superchargers being reported on Tesla's website. This and performance were the primary reasons I bought a Tesla. I traded in a 2016 Mustang GT Premium 6MT California Special for my Tesla and don't have an ounce of regret. I certainly would have if I bought a Bolt.

Level 2 charging is fine...for my garage at 30 MPH. I love plugging in to a Supercharger and seeing it report that it is feeding my 3 at 500 MPH. That tapers off mind you, but still. Version 3 Superchargers are supposed to push 1,000 MPH.
 
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bwilson4web said:
For 28 years, Toyota designed every bit of fun out of their Prius, Echo, and Camry. We’ve had three Prius models and my studies revealed Toyota had emasculated it. The EPA data suggests Hyundai did the same to the IONIQ.
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Okay, so I'm guessing that when you describe the Ioniq (presumably the Ioniq Electric, the BEV) as an "engineering study" you mean it's engineered for maximum energy efficiency at the expense of power, acceleration, or luxury features which would make it fun to drive?

Sorta like the classic Volkswagen Beetle. Great MPG for its era, but nobody would buy a Beetle for the pleasure of driving.
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bwilson4web said:
For me, a 'Sophie's choice.'
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I take it, then, that you're quite happy with the quality of the interior of your new Model 3?

The one time I've had the pleasure of riding in a Tesla car, a Model S, I thought it was quite luxurious. But it seems like the majority of comments on the subjects I've seen online indicate that Tesla still needs to work on the quality of their interiors.

However, I'm entirely willing to be persuaded that this criticism is outdated.
:)
 
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