Got a parking violation while charging Clarity on EV parking

[LegoZ]

It is also a waste of city funds to leave an idle charger sitting there, they should do everything they can to have an actively charging vehicle there at all times...

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

The ordinance applies to the parking facility in general so it makes sense that the sign is placed at the entrance. Subsequent signage on the charger is unnecessary since it is assumed that you were following the ordinance in place regarding parking in the facility in the first place.

If the signage was clear, then why did the incident described in the OP happen?

I wasn't there to see it happen... but then, neither were you. The evidence presented in these posts points to inadequate signage. You're suggesting we should ignore the evidence presented here, based on your armchair analysis?

I think not.

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[Pushmi-Pullyu]

It is also a waste of city funds to leave an idle charger sitting there, they should do everything they can to have an actively charging vehicle there at all times...

Hmmm... was it a free charging spot?

Not to say that you don't have a point, but here's a counter-argument: Why should the city have to pay for the electricity to charge some random person's EV?

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[The Gadgeteer]

It is very possible the funding initiative that placed the charger there in the first place specifically stated it would allow charging to the public.

 

[MPower]

Hmmm... was it a free charging spot?

No, it was not free and OP paid.

 

[LegoZ]

Hmmm... was it a free charging spot?

Not to say that you don't have a point, but here's a counter-argument: Why should the city have to pay for the electricity to charge some random person's EV?

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Why install something to not have it used even if free?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In this case however it was not free. To offset the cost of the monthly charges for ChargePoint to manage it, they definitely should encourage use as much as possible.

This is also my argument against Blinks crazy prices. They should lower them enough to encourage use to at least support maintaining them.
But I guess if they can’t make enough to maintain them and pay for the power maybe it’s better to let them sit idle?

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

This is also my argument against Blinks crazy prices. They should lower them enough to encourage use to at least support maintaining them.
But I guess if they can’t make enough to maintain them and pay for the power maybe it’s better to let them sit idle?

I certainly agree with you on Blink. In fact, some time back I read they were going out of business because they were so overpriced that almost nobody was using their chargers. I guess that turned out to be a rumor, because they still are around, but certainly their prices aren't competitive. I don't know how Blink stays in business. Is Blink being run at a loss?

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[Groves Cooke]

"Not to say that you don't have a point, but here's a counter-argument: Why should the city have to pay for the electricity to charge some random person's EV?"

Some cities provide free parking. Several near me also provide free charging. Maybe to encourage people to shop in their towns.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Some cities provide free parking. Several near me also provide free charging. Maybe to encourage people to shop in their towns.

How is that working out in your area? I get the impression, from various reports posted online, that free EV chargers generally aren't maintained properly, and tend to either fall out of service or get vandalized. In fact, one of what I like to call the "Usual Suspects" frequently posting comments to InsideEVs articles (myself included) has a mantra that "Free charging sucks". I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I think he has a point that free charging all too often encourages freeloaders to take advantage of that instead of charging at home, as they should; and that means the free chargers aren't available to those who actually need them.

But maybe it's different in your area.

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[RogerB]

As a former city official, I feel very strongly about this issue. The ordinance and signage are not clear as they apply to this situation.

Moreover, the responsibility for the ChargePoint listing and basic description is the City's, which provided the information. There was nothing to prevent them from noting any limitations on usage in the listing. Instead the listing notes only the cost of charging, which would suggest that if you are willing to pay up you can charge.

The language of the ordinance puts limitations on the use of area for parking, restricting it to employees and folks doing business with the City. OP was doing business. He was buying electricity.

We do not know if OP was the squeekiest wheel or whether he was the only person to receive a ticket for using the charging station. In any case it has provided an oportunity for the City to clarify its policy on the charger use.

Clearly, we have disagree about the appropriate relationship between citizens and their government so I guess we will just have to agree to differ.

As a taxpayer, I feel strongly about this issue as well. The mental gymnastics people have to go through to justify the OP's actions as "civic duty" are mind-bending. Just imagine if there were an army of people performing their "civic duty" on a daily basis. There would never be any official city business conducted, as city officials would be spending their day resolving massive civic injustices like this one that apparently are an issue with the astounding frequency of once every 5 years or so. I know I wouldn't want numerous high-paid city employees spending hours each day responding to emails or phone calls like this.

Again, I'm not discouraging civic participation. However, there are structured processes in place to do so. There are designated times where city officials are paid to listen to issues like this and can communicate the issue to the group with the proper jurisdiction so they can address the issue. I'm sure the city council would have been glad to add it as an agenda item or he could have made his case during the open portion of a public meeting. There was a city council meeting on April 2 where this could have been discussed. I know that in this day and age people feel like their staggering first-world problems need immediate rectification, but that simply isn't the case.

 

[RogerB]

If the signage was clear, then why did the incident described in the OP happen?

I wasn't there to see it happen... but then, neither were you. The evidence presented in these posts points to inadequate signage. You're suggesting we should ignore the evidence presented here, based on your armchair analysis?

I think not.

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The OP posted pictures and described the situation, why would I need to be there to make my "armchair analysis"? If we apply your rationale, why would anyone have responded to the post?

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

The OP posted pictures and described the situation, why would I need to be there to make my "armchair analysis"? If we apply your rationale, why would anyone have responded to the post?

The OP has no pictures. Go back and look.

I do see now that later on in the thread, a picture of the sign at the entrance was posted. But -- and please do correct me if I'm wrong -- no pictures have been posted of the actual charging stall. The person who created this thread said there was no signage, or at least inadequate signage, at the stall. Now here you are saying he's wrong? Based on what? Have you been to the location and looked it over?

I can't imagine why you want to pick a fight over this, when you're clearly arguing from a position of ignorance. At any rate, I have no interest in engaging with you further.

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[RogerB]

The OP has no pictures. Go back and look.

I do see now that later on, a picture of the sign at the entrance was posted. But -- and please do correct me if I'm wrong -- no pictures have been posted of the actual charging stall. The person who created this thread said there was no signage, or at least inadequate signage, at the stall. Now here you are saying he's wrong?

I can't imagine why you want to pick a fight over this, when you're clearly arguing from a position of ignorance. At any rate, I have no interest in engaging with you further.

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I was using OP as original poster, not original post. If the original poster did not want dissenting opinions, he should have noted it from the beginning.

How is my position of any more or less ignorance than anyone else outside of the OP? I read it all and reviewed the pictures, which apparently you either failed to do or forgot about. I'd say you are coming at this with a less-informed position than me.

 

[Aaron]

I am furious and confused!
I started charging my Clarity Hybrid Plug in Electric Vehicle at El Cerrito EV parking spot from 3:23 pm, and did some errands while charging it. I came back at 5:50 pm to pick it up, and guess what..I got a parking violation ticket! It said that it parked in EV parking at 15:44!

Is the police trying to be funny or luddite or no one knows if Clarity Plug in consider an EV too?

Anybody have this experienced?
Sorry, newbie here, how can I post a picture?

I have received many a BS parking ticket. You have to fight them. In San Diego that means you pay the fine AND THEN appeal. At some point you are given an appointment with someone downtown. You take the day off, go down with ALL your documentation (pictures, Ca. Veh Code, etc.) and present your case. I have never had the meter maid actually show up to defend their nonsense. I have also never lost a case. Then they refund your money when they feel like it.

As a reminder....and not to make this a political discussion.....but these are the same people (parking attendants) we are trying to put in charge of our health care.

 

[MPower]

As a reminder....and not to make this a political discussion.....but these are the same people (parking attendants) we are trying to put in charge of our health care.

It was amazing how skillful the "parking attendents" were when they attended the birth of my children in England under the National Health Service (and they never even gave me a ticket (errr bill).

But of course, being a good American I would always want the beneficent insurance companies in charge of my health care and never have to wonder whether a proposed proceedure was needed for my benefit or the provider's car payment.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Around noon time, come to my surprised Lieutenant Deurty called me with completely different tone. He is willing to expunge my ticket with one condition that I must hand deliver it to him ASAP. He proudly said that this is as his appreciation to my many phone calls and emails that sent to those city officials!!! He claimed that the city code is ambiguous and open to one's interpretation, and I was indeed literally doing an official business by paying the ChargePoint network in city hall premises....... Wow...Whaaaa .....whaaat!!

Thank you very much, ClarityKu, for fighting this ticket and posting your experience here!

I live in the neighborhood and just bought a Nissan Leaf, and had been nervous about charging my car there for more than an hour or so, until I read this post!!

Cheers,

-Tom

 

[Tek_Freek]

I have received many a BS parking ticket. You have to fight them. In San Diego that means you pay the fine AND THEN appeal. At some point you are given an appointment with someone downtown. You take the day off, go down with ALL your documentation (pictures, Ca. Veh Code, etc.) and present your case. I have never had the meter maid actually show up to defend their nonsense. I have also never lost a case. Then they refund your money when they feel like it.

As a reminder....and not to make this a political discussion.....but these are the same people (parking attendants) we are trying to put in charge of our health care.

Your last sentence is nonsensical. And so biased that it can slide off a horizontal surface.