Poll: Angry Bees and High Revving

[brady]

Making a poll to collect some data on the revving/angry bees issue. Multiple members have mentioned that there are instances where they hear angry bees/abnormally high revs from their Clarity, while others have mentioned that even driving in HV mode, their Claritys operate silently, or close in volume to EV mode.
Here's an example video from 0:16s onwards (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Woqc7B7aciUEaAS0XpiGlguaaQj4Jyor/view)

Bkgd:
When in HV mode, you see a blue bar on the power meter. If you go over the bar the car uses the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) to drive. Here's where things seem to differ between Claritys and even between my experiences as well.

1. Many owners have stated that in HV mode on decent-lengthed local trips, their Clarity would still be quite quiet and the engine operates normally when the ICE is on.

Description:
To replicate the revving/bees that me and some other owners are hearing, these were the standard driving circumstances:

1. Happens at any battery level ranging from low battery and moderate/high battery (60%+). (I would expect low battery to be normal however having moderate battery levels, in HV mode, I feel the revving shouldn't be occurring)
   
2. Happens in local stop and go driving with stop signs and stop lights
3. Happens when you are trying to accelerate from 0-~30 mph in regular local driving staying within the 1st 2-3 ticks of the power bar. (So no, the drivers aren't flooring it)
4. Happens on hilly or flat terrain (Though it happening in hilly terrain is understandable sometimes for more power draw)
5. Happens in temperature ranges, from 30 - 80 degrees (my experiences usually occur ~60-70 F)

The main thing that concerns/irks me is that a lot of people have reported their Clarity is often only quiet or low volume, while a few owners are clearly hearing the revs even in standard driving conditions (moderate accel, moderate battery, standard temps.)

My intuition is that there may be settings that changed on when the intensity of the ICE when it turns on between the earlier sold and later sold Claritys. Please take the time to answer the poll so we can collect more data on this issue.

Reference Posts:

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...-sound-when-accelerating-from-low-speed.1131/
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/clarity-issues.368/page-6
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...s/low-speed-engine-noise.971/page-2#post-9061
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...driving-recommendation.1115/page-2#post-11067

WOW!!!!! That video posted by DC2 is AWESOME! It explains a lot and is very informative. Everyone that own a clarity should watch.

 

[Wanderer]

Thanks for sharing. I bought the car less than 24 hours ago. I have experienced it twice already. It is very disturbing.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Thanks for sharing. I bought the car less than 24 hours ago. I have experienced it twice already. It is very disturbing.

Was it fully charged when it happened?
A lot of times the dealer does not charge the car and people drive off with a very depleted battery which causes this.
Can you give us the conditions in which it happened?

 

[Wanderer]

First day (yesterday)The battery was Empty. I took it from the dealership and the first noise happened before I hit the highway heading home. it went away in less than a minute.
I used the HV mode long press button and charged the battery till ~ 50% and depleted the battery on way home.
Next day (today) the battery is still empty, I cancelled the LKAS mode with the main button, and immediately the noise came back from almost a minute again.

 

[LAF]

Was it fully charged when it happened?
A lot of times the dealer does not charge the car and people drive off with a very depleted battery which causes this.
Can you give us the conditions in which it happened?

That is the only time I heard it back in dec when I drove it home.

 

[Highland58]

The one I first test drove (not the one I bought) had this when I drove it. It had no charge at all before the test drive. I'm not sure what mode it was in as I was completely unfamiliar with it at that point. I was not impressed by the loudness of the engine and I was not sure I wanted a Clarity or not after that. The one I bought has not had that issue so far.

 

[bfd]

If you want to hear the bees, drain your battery below 50% and put your vehicle in HV Charge mode. You'll get a full rendering. That's all that's happening when others hear it. The system puts itself into HV Charge mode to recharge the battery. It's a possible explanation for why there are so many observations that it frequently happens spontaneously when battery is low.

 

[Carro con enchufe]

I’ve basically only had it happen going up a steep incline in HV mode or batteries drained. Like BFD said also when I tried HV Charge once.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Just took my first out of town 500 m round trip in HV after 3,700 miles in EV since purchase.
Started with a fully charged battery and hit HV as soon as I left home. I had a beautiful experience watching the car cycle through every power flow in its repertoire (and saw the gear icon for the first time). Doing 70 on Interstate and 60-65 on roads, I got 49 mpg , the HV battery kept its SOC (losing only 1 bar and 4 miles of EV range) and no angry bees ever; even on some pretty good long hill climbs. The ICE was practically silent on the Interstate and only on one very steep, long 2 lane hill did it rev up enough to be noticeable, but that was only a low humming sound. All other hills off the Interstate were only a sound barely above an idling engine.
I was absolutely amazed and couldn’t be happier with this car!

PS: I tried to get the angry bees by trying out HV Charge but got the message that HV charge was maxed out and to plug in to further charge the battery. Wish we had a list of all the messages and warnings the Clarity will throw.

 

[jdonalds]

If you want to hear the bees, drain your battery below 50% and put your vehicle in HV Charge mode. You'll get a full rendering. That's all that's happening when others hear it. The system puts itself into HV Charge mode to recharge the battery. It's a possible explanation for why there are so many observations that it frequently happens spontaneously when battery is low.

My experience is different. I've used HV Charge perhaps 10 times and the angry bees didn't show up. We did have angry bees only once since purchasing the car, and that was when the battery still had a lot of charge. There didn't seem to be any reason for the ICE to rev up as we were just driving 75 mph on a flat freeway.

 

[Yannick]

Hello everyone, my final post on this forum about my clarity, angers bees, high revving and sluggish acceleration. I preface all of this by saying, I’m not an alarmist, don’t like or make a habit of complaining about people or products and felt compelled to post, the first time in my 52 years on the planet, because I feel the issue is serious. Honda and I came to an agreement and I traded the vehicle, apples to apples, for another vehicle even though I lost money but the headache of fighting in arbitration, having no time because of work and kids, I opted and Honda did a great job trying to solve the issue and making up for my inconvenience. I also need to state I love the car and technology and understand new technology has glitches and sometimes there are problems and this is just my experience and may very well be limited to my Clarity. So, 98% of the time, the car worked great, in all modes, motor ICE rumbled at its steady rpm as it should, maybe the angrier bees people are speaking of, whenever it was charging. Honda, after installing a data recorder, was able to duplicate the high rev of ICE when batteries are depleted and stated there is no acceleration loss or difference when this happens. This Honda says is a normal operation of the car, the computer tells ICE to quickly charge the batteries when they are depleted and the draw is greater than the charge. Makes sense to me!! For two months, by not fully depleteing batteries and putting in hv charge mode before full drain of batteries, I prevented this high rev from occurring and would have kept this awesome car if that was the consistent case but, it happened on the highway, only once but enough for me, in hv charge mode, six bars or 40% charge on batteries. This is why I had to get ride of the car. This may only be an issue with my vehicle, not all vehicles and if you are only getting high rev at battery depletion, the fix is put vehicle in hv charge mode at three bars or more and on the highway try to drive in hv mode. This seemed to work for me until the later happened. The only other thing I will say is there is a difference in acceleration when the high revving occurs, different than Honda’s claim. Just please communicate with Honda about any of these occurrences, they seem sincerely interested in understanding how these are functioning in the real world, cheers and enjoy the car.

Hi Lash,
great info thanks, glad you got rid of the car, I am getting close.
Not surprised that Honda said it was normal, they will never admit that there is a problem. What about the fact that when the engine is screaming we also burn through gas like crazy? One of the 17 issues I have is that the engine turns on by itself while on EV and revs around 4000 rpm and stays like that. Or if on HV, when I let go of the gas pedal or if going down, the engine also stays on which in turns burns more gas.
Dealership finally made effort to have a specialist look at the car, your info will prepare me a little as I am pretty sure that they will say that nothing is wrong with the car like they have been saying for month.
At least you are lucky that the dealership was cool, I had to threaten them of a lawsuit to have them finally do something.
Enjoy your new car, mine will not be a Honda.

 

[jdonalds]

Sorry for those who are having such big issues with the Clarity that they would sell the car. Seems appropriate for them.

In our case we have no such issues. The one time we've heard the angry bees (high gas engine rev) I considered it normal for the conditions. We love the car.

 

[Groves Cooke]

I have only experienced startlingly high rev noises once. This was after a decent down a hill using the paddles for reg braking. The noise startled me so that I instinctively let up on the accelerator, thus a loss of power. Took me a few seconds to adjust and press the accelerator more. The high revving only last another minute or so.

 

[craze1cars]

Groves, Thank you for posting this. I believe this sort of thing might happen to more people than many realize. A simple misinterpretation of what the car is doing changes YOUR input to the car. Not a defect in the car, but a startled driver who is not processing exactly what they think the car should be doing based on foot position and engine noise....ironically I was just writing about this theory of mine in another thread....

 

[tterag]

Had my Clarity for couple weeks now. I haven't had any behavior that I wouldn't consider normal for this type of car. The only time I've caught the engine revving up a little more than I would have expected is just after it starts for the first time in a day and I've come to a complete stop within a couple miles of that point. When I push the accelerator pedal to move passed the stop, the engine will rev more quickly than the power needle indicates (makes sense as they are not linked like a standard ICE). Kinda reminds me of flying a small Cessna. The engine RPM ramping does not match the planes acceleration during take off.

The best comparison I can make is that sometimes the ICE RPM does not match what I'm asking the car to do, but that is okay because the ICE's job is to supply the EV what it needs to match the demand I'm placing on the electric motor.

Also agree with those immediately above me about physical response to engine noise could be creating a foot pedal feedback loop. I wonder if this is why the car doesn't flash the VSC light when ABS is activating like previous cars I've owned would.

 

[PJJ]

Hi Guys, I have had my clarity for a week now and already experienced high ev 2 times. both times the battery was above 40% and when I took an exit from highway while on HV mode. The sound and sluggish acceleration was clear until I turned off the car (after about a mile) and restarted back in EV mode. How should I contact Honda in this case ?

 

[sniwallof]

Hi Guys, I have had my clarity for a week now and already experienced high ev 2 times. both times the battery was above 40% and when I took an exit from highway while on HV mode. The sound and sluggish acceleration was clear until I turned off the car (after about a mile) and restarted back in EV mode. How should I contact Honda in this case ?

(did you mean "high rpm"?) double check that you were not "eco mode" (look for the eco symbol on the driver's display), if experiencing sluggishness in eco mode turn it off, or press sport. Eco mode is slower response (by definition, that is part of how it saves/conserves energy over other modes), and in some circumstances, being in eco mode alone might feel like sluggishness.

Once started, Clarity wants to run ICE, at least until the ICE is warm. Preventing those normal ICE cycles may make things worse. In many or most cases, Clarity does not instantly return to EV mode, which is completely normal and appears to be by design.

I'm not saying you might not have a problem, just a couple of things for a new owner to consider first, others will have more ideas.

 

[PJJ]

(did you mean "high rpm"?) double check that you were not "eco mode" (look for the eco symbol on the driver's display), if experiencing sluggishness in eco mode turn it off, or press sport. Eco mode is slower response (by definition, that is part of how it saves/conserves energy over other modes), and might feel like sluggishness.

Once started, Clarity wants to run ICE, at least until it is warm. Preventing those normal ICE cycles may make things worse. In many or most cases, Clarity does not instantly return to EV mode, which is normal and by design.

I'm not saying you might not have a problem, just a couple of things for a new owner to consider first, others will have more ideas.

Yes, I was in Eco mode all the time. Next time it happens, I will try to turn off Eco to see it makes a difference. However, I realized that I tried to turn of HV mode by pressing it couple of times, but it remained until I stopped the car.

 

[sniwallof]

Yes, I was in Eco mode all the time. Next time it happens, I will try to turn off Eco to see it makes a difference. However, I realized that I tried to turn of HV mode by pressing it couple of times, but it remained until I stopped the car.

That's right, you can force ICE off by cycling the car's power (probably most of us did that in our first days of ownership). My point is, don't do that. Let the car do some management of its own systems (within reason). Especially for former Volt owners, Clarity's ICE operation is quite different in that regard.

There is a lot EV only driving available, however, the driver has a little less say as to when. If you want to manage more actively, there is some more control by more actively working the buttons later, but first, learn the car, and check that there are not any significant problems.

The exception, especially here, is to feel free to drop out of eco when you need more power. Note (edit) eco mode is fine, and has its place, the key is to just drop out of eco, if you need to. For example, on a lazy drive, especially around town, with little or no passing, eco helps to keep ICE off the most (at least because in most cases, you have to press the go pedal through the 'detent' to get ICE in eco mode.)

 

[PJJ]

That's right, you can force ICE off by cycling the car's power (probably most of us did that in our first days of ownership). My point is, don't do that.

Okay.. will not shut off the car and only place it in sports mode or non Eco mode