Charging Options for the R1S/R1T

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Poorpilot

Poorpilot

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I currently have a 220volt outlet installed in my garage and was curious if anyone has any experience with installing a CCS/SAE charger in their home? I realize I probably won't be able to replicate the speed of a high-output DC charger, but if I can get 20-40 miles per hour of charge, then I'm okay with that.
 
400 miles / 180 kWh = 2.22 miles/kWh
To gain 20 miles of range you have to add 20 / 2.22 = 9 kWh of charge, or 9kW for 1 hour. 9kW is 240VAC at 37.5A. Add 6% to allow for loses and you need 40A at 240VAC. That is very doable at home. I have a 240VAC 50A plug in my garage for my welding machine.
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m currently running a 50A that gives me between 25-30 miles per hour of charge, which is plenty for my daily needs. I wanted to have a dedicated 100A, but I’d have to upgrade my entire panel first.

On a side note- I’m curious if Rivian will offer a set of adapters like Tesla does for different types of charging methods? Ideally I could plug in 20-25’ cord straight into my 220/240 and get at least some charge when needed.
 
Poorpilot said:
Thanks for the reply. I’m currently running a 50A that gives me between 25-30 miles per hour of charge, which is plenty for my daily needs. I wanted to have a dedicated 100A, but I’d have to upgrade my entire panel first.

On a side note- I’m curious if Rivian will offer a set of adapters like Tesla does for different types of charging methods? Ideally I could plug in 20-25’ cord straight into my 220/240 and get at least some charge when needed.
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They said there is an 11kW charger on board, so that imposes an upper limit on how fast you can charge from 240VAC. As for the adapters, they seem to be emulating Tesla in many ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if that extended to adapters too.
 
On a 50A circuit, NEC allows you to use 40A (80%) for a continuous load. 20 miles per hour of range means it will take you 20 hrs or so to add 400 miles. That is a long wait. If it were a Tesla you could go to a supercharger and charge at more like 300 miles of range per hour. The good news is that there are lots of RV parks around with 50A connections.
I just don't know how we are supposed to accomplish long trips.
 
Feathermerchant said:
On a 50A circuit, NEC allows you to use 40A (80%) for a continuous load. 20 miles per hour of range means it will take you 20 hrs or so to add 400 miles. That is a long wait. If it were a Tesla you could go to a supercharger and charge at more like 300 miles of range per hour. The good news is that there are lots of RV parks around with 50A connections.
I just don't know how we are supposed to accomplish long trips.
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I don’t fully charge my Tesla everyday and won’t do the same for my Rivian. Tesla recommends between 60-80%. 150-200miles is fine for my daily (even multi-day) driving. So topping off to 400 miles everyday won’t happen. As far as charging while on a trip, I can obviously use the supercharger network for my Tesla, but I also use the PlugShare to find other charging options when not close to a supercharger. I will do the same for my Rivian. With Electrify America rapidly expanding their network and EVGo, plus others expanding- charging on a road trip won’t be that big of a deal.
 
Charging at home no problem if you can charge 240V @ 40A.
What are your plug share options? 240V @ 40A adds about 20 miles of range per hour of charging. You'll be there all day to fully charge the pack at that rate.
Maybe Rivian will partner with Tesla.
 
Feathermerchant said:
On a 50A circuit, NEC allows you to use 40A (80%) for a continuous load. 20 miles per hour of range means it will take you 20 hrs or so to add 400 miles. That is a long wait. If it were a Tesla you could go to a supercharger and charge at more like 300 miles of range per hour. The good news is that there are lots of RV parks around with 50A connections.
I just don't know how we are supposed to accomplish long trips.
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The Electrify America charging network is going up fast -- already 100 sites open -- and many, if not all, will have 350 kW DC fast chargers. Still best to charge at home unless you're road tripping because these won't be cheap.
 
Feathermerchant said:
Charging at home no problem if you can charge 240V @ 40A.
What are your plug share options? 240V @ 40A adds about 20 miles of range per hour of charging. You'll be there all day to fully charge the pack at that rate.
Maybe Rivian will partner with Tesla.
Click to expand...

I get between 25-30 miles per hour of charge at home using my current setup. 50amp/220/240 volt. Again, I don’t need to, nor should you, completely (100%) charge everyday like a cell phone. With my daily driving, at most 50 miles, if I plug the vehicle in at night, it’s back where I need it by the time I go to bed. For me, I charge between 60-80%(150-200 miles) which is fine for my daily driving. If I go on a road trip, I will bump it up to 100%, but with the Tesla, I can do this at a supercharger at no cost. Though where I live it’s only $.09/kWh to charge at home. With the Rivian, I plan to do the same (60-80%) of capacity for daily driving and then for a road trip I can either plan accordingly and plug her in several hours before I need to leave, or access any of the many local charging stations in my area. (EVgo, Electrify America, etc.) Though this would probably be a more expensive option.

As far as the PlugShare, I should have stated this is an app that is available that shows all the different types of public charging available in any given area. You can filter for different types as well so it’s not so crowded. Works great for choosing hotels when traveling with the family that have charging stations available for guests. It’s like getting a free tank of gas while you’re sleeping.
 
Domenick said:
The Electrify America charging network is going up fast -- already 100 sites open -- and many, if not all, will have 350 kW DC fast chargers. Still best to charge at home unless you're road tripping because these won't be cheap.
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Check that link and read the comments from those who have tried to use them. Many don't yet actually work. Maybe they will work by the time the Rivian vehicles are in production. Any idea what the cost is?

When electric cars are mainstream do you think hotels will have charging stations all over their parking lot?
I just think we still have a ways to go. And again I hope Tesla strikes a deal with Rivian.
 
Feathermerchant said:
Check that link and read the comments from those who have tried to use them. Many don't yet actually work. Maybe they will work by the time the Rivian vehicles are in production. Any idea what the cost is?

When electric cars are mainstream do you think hotels will have charging stations all over their parking lot?
I just think we still have a ways to go. And again I hope Tesla strikes a deal with Rivian.
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The network is going up pretty quickly, and there have been some bugs. There's a good bit of time between now and when Rivian is producing trucs, so I think they should have things working smoothly well in advance of that.

As for price, from their website: "Electrify America charging will include the following elements: $1.00 session fee + per minute charging cost + idle fee of $0.40/minute (if applicable). Our introductory charging cost pricing is $0.30 to $0.35 per minute of charging"
Idling fee starts 10 minutes after charging stops.

Regarding hotels, I think they'll adapt to their clientele. People are already choosing certain hotels because they have charging facilities. I expect that to increase and continue, and most hotels will offer EV charging. I believe now, it's usually free, but I would not be surprised if they begin charging (no pun intended) for it after a certain point.
 
The on board charger is to be 11 kW. Interestingly enough that's just about what the latest Teslas draw (in this crazy world they might even be buying rectifiers from Telsa). That's 45.8 A drawn at 240 V. Your breaker must be derated by 20% and thus a 60 A breaker will be required. As NEC requirements change (lockable disconnect required) above 60 A I assume that's why they have chosen 11 kW. If the battery capacity is 180 kWhr and the range 400 miles the energy demand is 450 Wh/mi. Assuming rectifier efficiency of 85% the 11 kW draw of the truck will translate into 9.35 kW delivered to the battery which is 9350 Wh/hr corresponding to 21 miles added range per hour of charging. A little disappointing but should be adequate for most people's daily commuting/running around town requirements. Charge for 10 hrs overnight and you have added 210 miles of range.
 
Azjohnny said:
Musk has had a recent Twitter post saying this is no longer the case and no problem charging up to 90%
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You may be right, as I’m going off the information I was told when I purchased last year. However I will say that I read several reports stating I should expect about a 5% loss in total range after my first year, but I’m happy to report I can still fully charge to 295 miles at the 1 year mark. I don’t know if keeping the daily charge between 60-80% has anything to do with that, or my somewhat limited use of the Supercharger, but I’ve seen no degradation so far.
 
Poorpilot said:
On a side note- I’m curious if Rivian will offer a set of adapters like Tesla does for different types of charging methods? Ideally I could plug in 20-25’ cord straight into my 220/240 and get at least some charge when needed.
Click to expand...

Adapters won't be needed. Rivian is using the North American standard plug for AC charging (aka J1772), done primarily at home and work. This inlet is shown in the top part of the picture below with the corresponding charging cable/connector on the upper left. For DC fast charging (i.e. "getting gas" on road trips), Rivian is using the DC standard connector (J1772 CCS/combo), which is the adds the two pins to the AC port. This also shown in the picture below with its cable on the lower left:

EV-fast-charging-standard.jpg
 
scramboleer said:
Adapters won't be needed. Rivian is using the North American standard plug for AC charging (aka J1772), done primarily at home and work. This inlet is shown in the top part of the picture below with the corresponding charging cable/connector on the upper left. For DC fast charging (i.e. "getting gas" on road trips), Rivian is using the DC standard connector (J1772 CCS/combo), which is the adds the two pins to the AC port. This also shown in the picture below with its cable on the lower left:

EV-fast-charging-standard.jpg
Click to expand...

What I mean is the other end of the cord. Tesla gives you a bag of adapters so you can plug into J1772, 220/240 or a 110 other end is the Tesla standard.
 
The only adapters I can think you might need would be the one for 50-amp RV park service and maybe a Tesla connector for destination chargers.
 
The 14-50R adapter is a must-have for sure. I would be most surprised if the vehicles did not ship with one of those. The Tesla wall charger adapter would certainly be extremely desirable but is a more sophisticated device in that it has to communicate between the wall charger and the vehicle to the point where the wall charger is convinced that there is a Tesla connected so that it will close its contactor. Such an adapter is certainly something that Rivian would want to offer if not as standarf equipment. I'm guessing from what I read here that I am not the only Tesla owner who has plunked down the 1K and is wondering how he's going to modify his garage wiring to incorporate another EVSA for his Rivian. The adapter as described conveniently solves that problem.

What such an adapter really needs is firmware that communicates between a Tesla wall charger AND a Tesla Super Charger, informing the latter that RJ and Elon have come to an agreement such that the SC will juice the Rivian. There has got to be an equitable arrangement between the two companies such as Rivien picks up a fraction of the cost of maintaining/expanding the SC network equal to the ratio of the number of Rivians to Teslas on the road. Judging by the glacial speed at which the alternative charging infrastructure is growing and its reported reliability inability to charge at Tesla SC's is probably the thing most likely to make me ask for my deposit back.
 
Two cross country trips with my EV have convinced me that Rivian does not need to develop it's own charging network. Electrify America, EVgo, ChargePoint and others are building out the CHAdeMO/CCS charging opportunities. Check PlugShare and the National Alternative Fuels Data Center for maps of these systems.
 
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