Top 10 Charging/battery related things a good EV should do

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Mark W

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Hi all,

I watch Kyle Conner's videos, and he always says three things good EVs should have are Route Planning, Battery Preconditioning, and Plug and Charge. I recently bought a Toyota bz4x because I got a crazy good lease deal, knowing the bz4X shortcomings with range and charging speed. What surprised me though are all the other related EV things that the bz4X just doesn't have. I came up with my top 10 things an EV should have to help drivers with EV things. What did I miss? What things are important to you? Thanks.

1. On the outside of the car, show some indication of charge level when car is charging

2. Show charge level of car inside the car without having to turn on the car.

3. While driving show current real time mi/kwh

4. Show detailed information of past trips including mi/kwh

5. Show battery %, charging rate, and estimate to completion when charging

6. Route planning should show reasonable charging stops needed

7. Car needs the ability to pre-condition the battery to increase charging speed

8. Effective Charging curve – fast charging for short time or flatter curve

9. Plug and Charge

10. A helpful App – Current charge, lock, unlock, remote start, locate vehicle, reliable, free
 
For your EV, could you please tell me which of the items above it does? The bz4x only partially does #5, and #10. The app actually seems pretty good so far.
 
2021 Ford Mustang Mach E - #1(one light per 20%), #3, #4, #6 (depends on definition of reasonable) , #7, #9, #10
2017 Smart fortwo ED (L2 local driving only) - #2 (only when charging), #3, #5
2017 Ford Focus Electric (former EV which is still in the family) - #1 (one light per 25%), #5
 
The ford F150 Lighting covers these 10 items in some manner either trough the display or the app. Enough so that I am ok with he information as provided.
 
My Hyundai Kona definitely does 1, 3 and 5. Most of the others don't seem important to me, as I almost always charge at home and do it manually, and being in Hawaii I don't do road trips. ;)
 
1. On the outside of the car, show some indication of charge level when car is charging (Tesla App)
2. Show charge level of car inside the car without having to turn on the car. (Tesla App)
3. While driving show current real time mi/kwh (Console trip meters)
4. Show detailed information of past trips including mi/kwh (Console trip meters)
5. Show battery %, charging rate, and estimate to completion when charging (Tesla App and Console)
6. Route planning should show reasonable charging stops needed (Navigation and Tesla App)
7. Car needs the ability to pre-condition the battery to increase charging speed (Tesla App and Navigation)
8. Effective Charging curve – fast charging for short time or flatter curve (Tesla curve triangular)
9. Plug and Charge (Tesla)
10. A helpful App – Current charge, lock, unlock, remote start, locate vehicle, reliable, free (Tesla App)​

Bob Wilson
 
Bruce M. said:
My Hyundai Kona definitely does 1, 3 and 5. Most of the others don't seem important to me, as I almost always charge at home and do it manually, and being in Hawaii I don't do road trips. ;)
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Thanks Bruce, what year Kona do you have? I have a friend that just got a '24 Kona, and they added 4,7, and 10.

I always thought that given the lack of need to road trip in Hawaii, that everyone should have EVs! But I looked up the price of electricity, and it's over 40 cents/kwh? Is solar power proliferating there?
 
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Mark W said:
Thanks Bruce, what year Kona do you have? I have a friend that just got a '24 Kona, and they added 4,7, and 10.

I always thought that given the lack of need to road trip in Hawaii, that everyone should have EVs! But I looked up the price of electricity, and it's over 40 cents/kwh? Is solar power proliferating there?
Click to expand...

My Kona is 2020, the original version. No doubt the new one has plenty of updates.

As for electricity costs in Hawaii, I'm spending about the same as with Pacific Gas and Electric in San Francisco, even though I have more electric appliances here (stove, clothes dryer). Hawaiian Electric offers a time-of-use plan that's actually dirt cheap from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., so that's when I charge (note that they have slightly different plans on the different islands due to different power mixes and costs). Gas here in Hilo is about $4.80 a gallon right now.
 
Can any ID.4 or Ioniq 5 owners help fill in this data? Or other owners correct anything I have wrong? Thanks
upload_2024-5-9_9-15-40.webp
 
You might consider transporting the array as sometimes a longer table is more readable than a wider one. Also see if the spreadsheet might fit in an upload able zip or container file so we can see it on our own screens.

Bob Wilson
 
Srividhya said:
Hi all, can u pls refer to a portable diesel or petrol generator for emergency charging pls! Tia!
Click to expand...
Need more details:
  • Home or portable with car?
  • Do you have natural gas service?
Perhaps start with your "operational scenario" or how you plan to use it to power what?

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
Need more details:
  • Home or portable with car?
  • Do you have natural gas service?
Perhaps start with your "operational scenario" or how you plan to use it to power what?

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...
Portable with car and yes generator fueled by Petrol (gas in American jargon). It is for a 13kw lithium ion battery powered EV delivery truck and i have 5 such trucks limited to just 125 kms range on a complete charge. It is to insure the delivery trucks reach home if it is out of battery charge.
 
Srividhya said:
Portable with car and yes generator fueled by Petrol (gas in American jargon). It is for a 13kw lithium ion battery powered EV delivery truck and i have 5 such trucks limited to just 125 kms range on a complete charge. It is to insure the delivery trucks reach home if it is out of battery charge.
Click to expand...

OWCH! You've described a perfect, plug-in, hybrid profile. These are modest battery, "13kWh" (?), vehicles with a small petrol engine that can move the vehicle with or without a charged battery. For example, my BMW i3-REx (a BMW i3 with a range extender engine.) No transmission because the engine only drives a generator to charge and drive the vehicle. But these need to be integrated in the vehicle, in effect the engine-generator outputs DC power at the same voltage range as the battery and the motor needs.

Now my 1,700 kg electric car, a Tesla, gets about 6.5 km for 1 kWh of power. So it has a 50 kWh battery that is the single, heaviest part (reports are ~800 kg.) But this is four door, saloon capable of 160 kph. But a smaller, lighter weight vehicle might work with a 13 kWh battery:
  • auto rickshaw
  • Kei (Japanese) vehicles
Are these the size of delivery vehicles you are thinking of?

Bob Wilson
 
Perfect! The technical details we need:
Untitled.webp
A 3.3 kW portable generator is all you need to remotely charge. For long life and greater efficiency, go higher, up to 6.6 kW. A smaller generator may require a staggered, startup charge rate, from the vehicle, so it won't overload the engine and choke it to stop. I could not find the charging plug standard so there may be a trick to automatically slow the ramp of the charging load.

upload_2024-11-1_16-23-7.webp

In theory, a DC generator with:
  • 72 VDC output voltage - battery pack voltage
  • 10.5 kW output - the motor limit
This could "in theory" power the vehicle home on just the DC generator. But such generators are going to be expensive and heavy ... very heavy. But there is a "cheat."

Have a "recovery" vehicle with a tow hitch to pull the EV vehicle back. As it is towed, regenerative braking, built into the vehicle, will put a charge on the battery. When the charge is high enough, disconnect the tow and everyone goes home.

Bob Wilson
 
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I use a Honda BRV to tow it back home if it gets stuck. However the chain that pulls it sometimes is overlooked by bypassing motorcyclists in a typical Indian city traffic and is dangerous. Thats why the querry about portable genset. Will a Honda 5kw petrol genset do the trick? It needs to be Earthed according to a youtube video...



I just am unsure if this will work in my case. The regenerative braking system increases the charge very slightly to the point of almost no effect.
 
Srividhya said:
I use a Honda BRV to tow it back home if it gets stuck. However the chain that pulls it sometimes is overlooked by bypassing motorcyclists in a typical Indian city traffic and is dangerous.
Click to expand...
A tow bar would be safer perhaps with warning lights or something between the vehicles that blocks suicidal cyclists:
upload_2024-11-1_18-24-8.webp

Srividhya said:
Thats why the querry about portable genset. Will a Honda 5kw petrol genset do the trick? It needs to be Earthed according to a youtube video...



I just am unsure if this will work in my case.
Click to expand...

It should but the challenge is the almost sudden 3.3 kW load from the EV charger. A sudden load like that can be faster than the engine can respond.

What others have done is set the vehicle maximum charge rate to something low, say 1 kW, and once the generator is charging, increase the charge rate slow enough it doesn't choke the engine. But this has to be done in the EV vehicle as there are communication protocols that have to be handled.

If you have a 3.5-4 kW load, say a space heater or cooking stove, try to plug it in and see if the generator continues to run. Even portable generators can have control computers that handle surge loads reasonably well. There is also a risk that the vehicle charger seeing a voltage sag may "protect itself" and shut off.

The ground is a safety requirement for the "ground fault" circuitry in the charger. They really don't want humans or critters to become part of a line voltage circuit between the EV body and the ground they are standing on.

Srividhya said:
The regenerative braking system increases the charge very slightly to the point of almost no effect.
Click to expand...
In theory, it could be up to the motor limit, 10 kW, but doesn't have to be. The vehicle designers may have wanted to minimize the battery stress for maximum life. More likely, it will be limited to the maximum DC charger rate.

Bob Wilson
 
If any of this helps, perhaps share some pictures of what happened and "lessons learned" from the experience. For example, I would be interested in a compare and contrast:
  • Per km cost from the grid
  • Per km cost from the generator
For example, I have a natural gas fueled, emergency generator:
  • $0.12/kWh grid electric rate and 6.4 km/kWh gives $0.019/km
  • $0.45/kWh gas generator and 6.4 km/kWh gives $0.070/km
  • Gas generator is $0.070 / $0.019 ~= 3.7 times more expensive than grid power
For what it is worth, I'm converting my Tesla stock profits into home solar. So my effective electricity rate will be substantially reduced. These savings are a monthly dividend while I'm alive that is missing from the Tesla stock.

Bob Wilson
 
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