Efficiency Map for 100KW motor mounted in the 39.2 KWh kona

[vimalkumar.2003]

Where can i find the "Motor Torque Speed" Curve/"Efficiency Map" for the 100KW PMSM used in the 39.2KWh Kona Electric?
I have been souring the internet, EV Forums but to no avail.
(Looking for something like this).

I am basically looking out for this info - to understand the RPM band at which the motor operates most efficiently.

All this started when my Kona stumped with an efficiency figure of 19.2KM/KWh (that's almost like 50Wh/km)

And although i have done hypermiling experiments before, i have never been able to cross 17KM/KWh.
On this very short "Round" trip, the only differing factor from my earlier hypermiling experiments was the speed.
Hence, got me thinking what was the sweet spot for this 100KW motor, the RPM band in which it operates the best.

Desperately looking for any pointers, hints etc. Even the curve of the 150KW motor mounted in the 64KWh Kona will do.

 

[KiwiME]

This is from an early Leaf but the motor design is very similar to the Hyundai, just smaller. The Kona 150kW motor is identical to the "100kW" motor as best as I'm aware.

 

[vimalkumar.2003]

This is from an early Leaf but the motor design is very similar to the Hyundai, just smaller. The Kona 150kW motor is identical to the "100kW" motor as best as I'm aware.
View attachment 23286

Thanks, i will definitely try it out. I was trying to hit that marginal "96-97%" section.
I hope it is not quite different for the Kona 100KW motor.

Please correct me if i am wrong, but we need to take the motor rpm here adjust it against with reduction gear value and figure out the speed in kmph using the tire circumference.

The only concern here, is the high speed and having to maintain it for considerable distance in order to get a noticeable difference. There are almost no sections here in my hometown, where i can test it. We can barely hit 60kmph intermittently without putting our luck to test.
I hope to test it, when i get an opportunity to take it onto some good highways in the neighboring states.

 

[KiwiME]

The small differences in motor efficiency by rpm will get lost in the noise compared with many other factors while driving on a public road, particularly speed. A motor is just a transformer of 'mechanical' energy from one form into another. It's nothing like a heat engine which in current automotive form has substantial compromises and inefficiencies that are widely variable and therefore easy to exploit.

The Kona is already very energy-efficient but you can maximise that by:
a) use high tire pressures, 40 psi or slightly more (but be aware of the maximum marked on the sidewall).
b) drive in regen Level 0 and use the foot brake to slow down and stop.

Try out this EV simulator which has a Kona preset and illustrates the relative proportion of driving losses.

 

[vimalkumar.2003]

The small differences in motor efficiency by rpm will get lost in the noise compared with many other factors while driving on a public road, particularly speed.

That is what i thought too.
All my hypermiling efforts had yielded mostly around 16km/KWh, so consumption of around 60Wh/km. And i had almost settled on it, considering it to be the maximum. Till i started playing a bit around with the higher speeds of 60+ with pulse and glide. That is when i started seeing better efficiencies. It has happened, more than once to consider it an anomaly. With the latest being the 19km/KWh (50Wh/km) figure on a cool day.
If, i can go faster and that too with a lower consumption, then that is an advantage i would definitely love to have.

So, now i am trying to find out this sweet spot/range of the torque-RPM that suddenly gave such a boost to the efficiency. Hence the hunt for the efficiency map of this motor.

Without this, i am kind of hunting around in dark over quite a big range. I need to narrow down this huge range, before i head out for a test run.
And adding to that headache is the fact, that I don't get a lot of chances to go on good wide roads with manageable traffic. I need to go to almost another state for those privileges. So just trying to have some figures ready, to test, whenever next chance comes.

a) use high tire pressures, 40 psi or slightly more (but be aware of the maximum marked on the sidewall).

don't want to risk it, ours is a very hot climate and pretty bad roads. Anyways, even when pumped to 35psi, it heats upto 38 while driving.

b) drive in regen Level 0 and use the foot brake to slow down and stop.

have tested almost all the Drive modes & Regen settings and there is nothing more left to maximize there. I drive in regen 0 always, and use coasting+"paddle pull" in the end to bring it to a precise stop. My service advisor had asked me to try using the brake pads atleast sometimes, as they seem to be collecting dust+rust and they have to sand them down always.

Try out this EV simulator which has a Kona preset and illustrates the relative proportion of driving losses.

Yes, i tried it. It looks a bit like hardcoded with universal concepts. And honestly i think it is quite informative but not a tool for the specifics that i am looking at - like controlling rate of acceleration at different RPM's(or atleast i am yet to figure out, how to, on this website).

And it is for 64KWh, mine is 39.2KWh. So the consumption and the scaling up with speed is far different.
My consumption goes from 90 to 100Wh/km from speeds of 60 to 80kmph but this simulator shows the consumption of 120 to 150Wh/km in that same section.
This simulator, definitely does not follow hypermiling, which is what i am looking for.

P.S. Please don't consider these as counter arguments of some sort, these are just my replies based on my experience.
I am glad about all the inputs that i can get, even if, it is the same as that i have tried. I am not only looking for that Efficiency Map curve but also perspective and experience of others.

 

[KiwiME]

If you're getting 6.0 kWh/100km with steady driving that's outstanding. I generally don't beat 10.0 on our local roads, 50-80 km/hr, noting my Kona is a 64kWh.

If 'pulse and glide' is working even better (as you're aware) it can only be from higher inverter and motor efficiencies at higher torque levels. Possibly why the original Ioniq is the king of efficiency, with the major difference being a smaller motor.

But another factor is that if you're relying on the dash reading it's likely to have a few percent error because it appears to ignore the LDC loading. The most accurate reading (IMO) for kWh used over a fixed distance will be (read over OBD) the change in CED - 0.98 x the change in CEC.

The reason I suggest using the brake pedal is because it drops regen when it's no longer viable. The left-paddle-hold will use (theoretically) power at some point as a full stop is reached.

 

[vimalkumar.2003]

If you're getting 6.0 kWh/100km with steady driving that's outstanding. I generally don't beat 10.0 on our local roads, 50-80 km/hr, noting my Kona is a 64kWh.

It is usually around 7-8KWh/100km, unless the weather is cool and i need only blower+fresh air intake (that is when i can hit around 6).
It was the elusive 5.2KWh/100km that i want to hit. Needs cool weather, open road/no traffic and higher speed(i think 60+). It is the speed factor that i have to figure out.

If 'pulse and glide' is working even better (as you're aware) it can only be from higher inverter and motor efficiencies at higher torque levels.

Could be true, there is no way to figure it out. I assumed it was due to part loading during pulse and then the coasting phase. So basically some form of "attack and recovery curves" that we see in battery testing.

Possibly why the original Ioniq is the king of efficiency, with the major difference being a smaller motor.

I think you mean older IONIQ(not available in India), the Ioniq 5 seems less efficient. The Kona 39.2KWh, might have borrowed the same motor as the IONIQ 38.3KWh(2019/2020 variant?).
Thanks, will check it out.

But another factor is that if you're relying on the dash reading it's likely to have a few percent error because it appears to ignore the LDC loading. The most accurate reading (IMO) for kWh used over a fixed distance will be (read over OBD) the change in CED - 0.98 x the change in CEC.

The History screen in the Eco driving section seems to take the cumulative Odometer and battery SOC values at EOD. So it seems somewhat more accurate than the MID. OBD2 would be the perfect solution, but I am yet to justify that need.

The reason I suggest using the brake pedal is because it drops regen when it's no longer viable. The left-paddle-hold will use (theoretically) power at some point as a full stop is reached.

I did test it initially and found it to be lower, let me retest this and try to figure out the difference. The temporary auto hold with paddle pull was a saver in the stop and go traffic when it came down to convenience.