Fuel Pump Recall - Long Wait for New Parts

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My guess is that there would be little difference (maybe none) visually, It is likely that the composition of the plastic impeller was altered.
I am curious about your comment about doing the recall yourself... I'm sure it is an 'easy' job (fuel pump access seems pretty easy after removing the back seat).

But I would question your motive. First of all, the repair is free. Second, Honda (dealer) would probably not just hand you a new pump for you to do a DIY job. Third, your DIY repair would not be officially recorded in Honda's system which probably doesn't prove that the recall was even done on your VIN. This is an issue for resale, etc.

I know if you are paying for a repair, you are entitled to have the old / defective part. If it is on Honda's nickle (like a warranty or recall) they do not have to give you the old part and probably would not.
Reason why I am going to do it myself if because by doing it myself, I know it's done right. There are some things, like getting the godforsaken condenser replaced, where I simply do not have the tools or skills needed to perform the repair where I will have someone else do it though.
 
Reason why I am going to do it myself if because by doing it myself, I know it's done right. There are some things, like getting the godforsaken condenser replaced, where I simply do not have the tools or skills needed to perform the repair where I will have someone else do it though.

I totally understand the sentiment - being about as avid of a DIY'er as they come.
I would not hesitate to do this myself, but I won't because of the reasons I mentioned in the previous post. And I would be very surprised if they would just hand you a new pump.

In this instance, I have very little fear about the dealer 'not doing this right' because they will be dealing with a massive number of these and I think their skills will be honed to perfection by the time this is over !! Maybe I don't want to be one of the first ones in line, but they can have this job !
 
Although I'm also an avid DIYer, I'm in agreement with Mr-"LetThem"-Fixit; it makes more sense to let the dealer do this repair (after they've practiced on a few dozen cars owned by someone other than me).
 
I totally understand the sentiment - being about as avid of a DIY'er as they come.
I would not hesitate to do this myself, but I won't because of the reasons I mentioned in the previous post. And I would be very surprised if they would just hand you a new pump.

In this instance, I have very little fear about the dealer 'not doing this right' because they will be dealing with a massive number of these and I think their skills will be honed to perfection by the time this is over !! Maybe I don't want to be one of the first ones in line, but they can have this job !
I don't expect them to hand me a new fuel pump. I have worked at auto shops long enough to know that corners are *always* cut. Seriously, the only time you're going to actually have someone who knows what they are doing is if you have something really sensitive, like an engine rebuild, dropping the engine, or something else. I'm not saying the work they do is bad exactly, it gets the job done. It just could be done better.
 
I have very little fear about the dealer 'not doing this right' because they will be dealing with a massive number of these and I think their skills will be honed to perfection by the time this is over !!
Dealer: "We finally have the replacement fuel pump needed to make your Clarity reliable."
Me: "Can you call me again after you've replaced your first hundred?"
 
Dealer: "We finally have the replacement fuel pump needed to make your Clarity reliable."
Me: "Can you call me again after you've replaced your first hundred?"
Having something that works and doing something right (not cutting corners) are not the same thing. They could do 1000 and it wouldn't make a difference to me, they would have figured out even more corners they can cut. If airplanes were repaired like dealerships repair cars, there would be a huge scandal. Dealerships can, and do, ignore procedure, almost always ignore torque specs, will gladly ignore a lost bolt or two. Sure, it will get out the door, and it will work. Doesn't mean it's something that's done *right*. Working on a car really isn't that hard, rules of thumb generally work okay, getting it "good n tight" will probably be fine, for example. Dosent mean it's the right thing to do.
 
Having something that works and doing something right (not cutting corners) are not the same thing. They could do 1000 and it wouldn't make a difference to me, they would have figured out even more corners they can cut. If airplanes were repaired like dealerships repair cars, there would be a huge scandal. Dealerships can, and do, ignore procedure, almost always ignore torque specs, will gladly ignore a lost bolt or two. Sure, it will get out the door, and it will work. Doesn't mean it's something that's done *right*. Working on a car really isn't that hard, rules of thumb generally work okay, getting it "good n tight" will probably be fine, for example. Dosent mean it's the right thing to do.
I'm so lucky to have a dealership with a great service department. I've been buying cars and getting service from them since 1973 when I bought my first new car. I have never experienced a problem with the work done there. I did not have the same good experience with the local British car dealership working on my earlier used sports cars. However, those cars weren't designed to be reliable, so it wasn't all the dealership's fault.

I was especially impressed by my Honda dealership's service department's ability to work on my 2000 Honda Insight (serial number 221), which was the first Insight in the midwest. Well, perhaps they leaned on Honda corporate when they had questions about this newfangled hybrid car, but they always got the job done. Then, again, it didn't require much more than the routine annual service.

I really appreciated their help getting Honda to discount the price of a replacement NiMH traction battery when it expired two months after the warranty expired.

I'm sorry your experience with dealership service departments has been so bad. I'm sure many have had the same problems as you.
 
I'm so lucky to have a dealership with a great service department. I've been buying cars and getting service from them since 1973 when I bought my first new car. I have never experienced a problem with the work done there. I did not have the same good experience with the local British car dealership working on my earlier used sports cars. However, those cars weren't designed to be reliable, so it wasn't all the dealership's fault.

I was especially impressed by my Honda dealership's service department's ability to work on my 2000 Honda Insight (serial number 221), which was the first Insight in the midwest. Well, perhaps they leaned on Honda corporate when they had questions about this newfangled hybrid car, but they always got the job done. Then, again, it didn't require much more than the routine annual service.

I really appreciated their help getting Honda to discount the price of a replacement NiMH traction battery when it expired two months after the warranty expired.

I'm sorry your experience with dealership service departments has been so bad. I'm sure many have had the same problems as you.
I'm not saying the work they do is bad. Cutting corners and guessing usually dosent have any noticable consequences. But you almost always are going to do a better job by doing it yourself. There are a few exceptions, IE a master tech rebuilding an engine is almost certainly going to follow specs, and generally procedure, and will do a better job than you can.
 
There are a few exceptions, IE a master tech rebuilding an engine is almost certainly going to follow specs, and generally procedure, and will do a better job than you can.

Your post reminded me of dark days from my youth (mid-20s). Even when a "master tech" follows all procedures, thing can and do go wrong. In the 1980s I was the engine builder at Electramotive Inc. which fielded Datsun/Nissan's USA IMSA GTO racing team. The engines I built were balanced and blueprinted, and were only used for three to four sprint races or one endurance race before being rebuilt again. One season my engines started grenading during races, usually due to connecting rod failure. This photo shows one of the more spectacular failures at Daytona during practice laps - a rod blew out the side of the block, the oil hit the twin-turbos, and the car ignited.
GTO%20Datona.jpg

Fortunately, the driver wasn't injured. The car caught fire on a Thursday, we flew it back to the shop in California overnight on a cargo jet, then rebuilt the entire car and flew it back to Daytona by Saturday afternoon so it was ready to race on Sunday. It started the race in the dead-last position, but managed to get into and hold first place by hour 10 of the 12-hour race. And then the engine grenaded!

After that, it got to the point where the owner of the company would watch me during every step of the engine building process, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. It turned out the error wasn't mine -- we were receiving defective rod and crankshaft bearings -- they looked fine initially and after break-in on the dyno, but delaminated under extreme heat and racing conditions. We actually started baking all bearings in an oven for a few hours to determine which ones were faulty. After that, my engines finally stopped blowing up. So, even when great care is taken, the engine-gremlins can still bite you!
 
we were receiving defective rod and crankshaft bearings

Incredible story !!!
These days, we would blame China for poor quality parts. I presume everything was US made then.

I have wondered why complete rebuilds are done so frequently in the racing world. I guess 'normal wear' is just so extreme when an engine is pushed to the limit that it warrants complete bearing replacement after only a few races. Completely rebuilding an engine is a very complicated task and there are lots of opportunities to make a mistake.

You were clearly a "Master Tech", and I admire your ability to operate under such great pressure !
 
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Incredible story !!!
These days, we would blame China for poor quality parts. I presume everything was US made then.

I have wondered why complete rebuilds are done so frequently in the racing world. I guess 'normal wear' is just so extreme when an engine is pushed to the limit that it warrants complete bearing replacement after only a few races. Completely rebuilding an engine is a very complicated task and there are lots of opportunities to make a mistake.

You were clearly a "Master Tech", and I admire your ability to operate under such great pressure !
More that the engine is highly strung than anything else, and that reliability isn't as much of a priority. If you were to take a road car and hammer on it on the track, the engine would be fine so long as you took care to not let the oil or coolant get too hot.
 
These days, we would blame China for poor quality parts. I presume everything was US made...

Actually, we blamed Japan for those parts! The race car was based on the Datsun 280Z Turbo, so the engine block was the L28 (2.8 liter in-line six) that came stock from the factory for that car (although it was heavily modified to withstand the 1000 HP the engine made). The bearings were manufactured by NISMO (Nisson Motorsports) in Japan. We eventually learned that they had manufacturing problems that led to random failures in each batch, so some bearings would be fine while others would fail.
 
More that the engine is highly strung than anything else, and that reliability isn't as much of a priority. If you were to take a road car and hammer on it on the track, the engine would be fine so long as you took care to not let the oil or coolant get too hot.

Reliability also was very important for us, but we defined it differently -- we needed the engines to last until the checkered flag was waved! A lot of race cars were DNF ("did not finish") at 12-hour races like the one at Daytona.

If necessary, our driver could add more boost to the turbos (exceeding the engine's design specifications) for the final few laps -- this increased the odds of engine failure, but the gamble was worth it if that extra horse power allowed us to win the race. We also had a major advantage over every other team during the 1980s -- the equivalent of an Engine Control Unit (ECU) years before anyone else (including major car manufacturers) had them. The driver of our car, Don Devendorf, was an electrical engineer who designed complex control systems for aerospace and defense applications at Hughes Aircraft. He built an analog (non-digital) version of an ECU that significantly improved the performance and reliability of our engines. That "black box" was a closely guarded secret for the first few years that we used it.

Note: It's been years (decades?) since I last thought about my work at Electramotive, so it feels like I've gone down a rabbit hole with these recent posts. I'll now return to my regular commenting about Clarity issues...
 
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I have no experience to offer, but your question makes me think about Honda and what their obligation should be...



This affects 2.6 million vehicles. Honda is certainly painfully aware of the particulars of this failure. They no doubt have a good understanding of the exact failure mechanism and the likelihood of an individual vehicle encountering this failure during the period prior to when they can get started on a serious replacement program.



To me, (especially since there is this significant delay), Honda should be obligated to educate us more thoroughly than just telling us to wait until sometime indeterminate time in the fall before this can get addressed.



Although I have no real basis for this, my instinct is that this has to be a relatively low probability of occurrence, If 1 in a thousand vehicles has a problem before the fall, that would mean that around 2,600 Honda's would fail and become disabled on the side of the road.



Personally, I would not hesitate to go on a road trip... It just seems like we will not be seeing 2,600 dead Honda's on the side of the road, and I can be comfortable with a 1 in 1000 chance of a failure...



Of course, I completely made up these numbers, but I think there would be more of a panic to get this corrected sooner if the likelihood was more than very low.
I also went to the Honda dealer to see what they would offer for the car. While waiting, I headed to the parts counter to ask about the availability of a pump for the recall. The answer was that there is not a part available. We discussed both pumps, A00 and A01, and concluded between us that either part would most likely make for a successful repair of a failed pump. However, neither of us knows if either pump, or more specifically, the A01, meets Hondas standard for a warranty replacement. The A01 is available, yet I was told there is no part available for a warranty claim.

A few steps away, in the service department, the same questions were asked and nearly identical conversations were had. One piece of information provided by the service advisor was that, for this type of repair, they disassemble the fuel pump module and replace only the motor and impeller assembly. This is because they know specifically which component has failed, or will/may fail, so only that component is replaced. Prior to the recall, or on any other vehicle not subject to a fuel pump recall, a failed fuel fuel pump would be repaired with a complete fuel pump module, because the cause of failure was yet to be determined. No one in the service department had the answer to whether or not the motor and impeller assembly that we are waiting on for warranty claims is the same as what is used in the A01 module. When the part becomes available it will undoubtedly have a different part number than either fuel pump module, so its origins may remain a mystery.
I have also talked to Honda about this recall. The service department suggested I "stick close to home" while waiting for a fix. I have a problem with owning one of their vehicles and having them tell me how far I should or should not go in it for who knows how long.
I went in last week thinking perhaps I would purchase something else. My CR-V is a 2018 with 35,000 miles on it. Trade in offer was too low. I asked if the recall on it was factored in and was told they would fix it and get it out on the lot the next day. So they will perhaps "fix" it with the same part it already has (but new) rather than the new remodeled one which at this point would be fine with me until they get what they need.
 
The service department suggested I "stick close to home" while waiting for a fix.
Does this sound like a reasonable recommendation?

As I mentioned earlier, we are not seeing disabled Honda's all over the side of the road, so this is just idle chatter (probably from the guy who sits at the service desk rather than a mechanic). It would be nice if Honda would issue a solid date (which I'm sure they know internally) as to when we can expect dealers to have the new pumps and thus be able to start making appointments. Meanwhile, just drive your car as if you never heard about this recall. This is certainly not grounds to consider getting rid of the car (assuming you like it otherwise).
 
As a 2019 Civic owner (longer trip vehicle), I was recently told my a local service manager that the pump parts will be available during October. I’ve had a bunch of other problems lately, including repairs covered under an “extended manufacturer warranty.” I had the AC system rebuilt for a second time. Now, it seems I have a door actuator problem. It drains the battery if I don’t use the car daily. BTW, my other car is a Mini SE.
 
The service department suggested I "stick close to home" while waiting for a fix. I have a problem with owning one of their vehicles and having them tell me how far I should or should not go in it for who knows how long.

Based on your wording, the service department offered a suggestion, they didn’t tell you to do anything. A more significant problem, in my opinion, is that the service department doesn’t know when, or if, your fuel pump will fail. It’s been working just fine for 6 years and 35,000 miles. That’s a low mileage figure for the age of the vehicle and could be an indication that short trips, close to home are the norm.

I’d suggest obtaining a roadside assistance policy, continue driving as you please and don’t get lathered up over a simple suggestion.
 
I got my snailmail (usps) letter today RE the fuel pump impeller. It makes for odd reading. It says "Due to limited supply of parts, at this time Honda is prioritizing the repair of vehicles experiencing symptoms..." We've waited months since original HondaLink notification, and now the physical letter came in the mail, but with the notice that unless you have the issue you may not get service. I called my dealer's repair area. They indicate Honda has been sending them a small number of parts, but wouldn't say if I could have one. They asked me to call back in a month or two, which is the same I was told by them when originally notified via HondaLink.

Edit/add: I read the letter carefully, and it *does* say i will be notified by another letter once I can have the service. I was initially confused as I figured once I got the USPS notification I could get the part.
 
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