Is running EV charging stations a legitimate business?

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On a personal note, my 2019 Tesla Model 3 regularly charges at CharePoint CCS-1/CHAdeMO, 50-60 kW stations on the direct route between Huntsville AL and Mobile TN (aka. Tunica MS.) They bridge a gap that formerly was poorly served by a 6 kW, J1772 in Corinth MS and avoids adding ~30 miles with a dogleg to Tupelo MS. These will exist for legacy CCS-1 vehicles that will, like CHAdeMO, have no alternative but a Supercharger-to-CCS-1 adapter.

In Dixie, these ChargePoint 50-60 kW, CCS-1 chargers are often installed by local businesses and City governments with their local utility. They provide a useful service within an area around the town. If a company adopts the ChargePoint business model, there will be 'gap filler' and 'EV attracting' local areas. In California, I used a similar Tesla model, 70 kW charger, at a mall ... a place where people spend an hour or two but needs a stronger than 6-9 kW, J1772 charger.

Bob Wilson
 
Mark W said:
Well, they have announced they are making their own, it's called IONNA. I'll believe it when I see it.
https://twitter.com/OutofSpecPod/status/1756032648642777100

This just adds to my lack of understanding of who pays for charging stations to be built, who owns them, and who is responsible for maintaining them.
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Most of the money is coming from the state, federal and local governments.

Most of the money is in the form of grants. Here in Washington state the grants are going to tribes, businesses, and non-profits organizations.

Two organizations, Forth and Energy Northwest, that have received a good chunk of money from Washington state.

https://forthmobility.org/about
https://www.energy-northwest.com/whoweare/Pages/About Us.aspx

Both Forth and energy-northwest have applied for new grant money. They are planning to partner with EVCS.

https://www.evcs.com/
 
Now if you had chargers in the parking lot of a 24x7 restaurant with bathroom, perfect for a 'stop and rob.'

Bob Wilson
 
After using a Shell Recharge, formally Volta, charging station, I'm a bit surprised that we don't see advertising on all new charging stations. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
marshall said:
After using a Shell Recharge, formally Volta, charging station, I'm a bit surprised that we don't see advertising on all new charging stations. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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Its coming! LG is making DCFCs with advertising screens along with the usual suspects. Ive seen then in person
 
Finally, a way to make money selling electrons to EV drivers! What next, lower charging fees if you respond on the touch screen to questions to prove you've been watching the ads?
 
insightman said:
Finally, a way to make money selling electrons to EV drivers! What next, lower charging fees if you respond on the touch screen to questions to prove you've been watching the ads?
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Actually pretty smart way to increase profits. One machine could estimate charge time and suggest that EV driver spend that time in a nearby cafe.;)
 
Mark W said:
so many charging stations don't work. To me, that means that the companies that run/maintain them don't make money from their operation
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from the original post

Most of the EA (and EC) chargers are made by BTC. Although I don't know how EA or EC responds to their reliability issues, but another well known Canadian charging network that uses BTC chargers almost exclusively really hates BTC and will dump them as soon as their contract is up. They claim that BTC turns each service request into a warranty fight which delays repairs. They also claim that BTC's repairs are made with used or defective parts which break again in a short time. Also, charging technicians I have talked to consider BTC the most unreliable. So it's not always as if networks are abandoning their unreliable networks, a large part of the problem is that they bought into bad equipment.

Having said that I know from calling their helpline that EA considers chargers that are putting out any kw to be functional. So if you are expecting 150kw but only receiving 20kw that's just fine according to EA. It could be worse: if you charge in Canada you usually pay by the minute not by the kw. So that 20kw charging rate from your EC charger will cost you 750% what you expected. I have seen BTC machines in Canada that have a notice on screen that the "output is reduced but don't worry you will still get a full charge" (but at a much higher cost). According to my source at the network BTC does not know how to fix this problem, and I wonder if the network wants it fixed.

So when networks and charger manufacturers misbehave customers get angry. That's an unsustainable business model. They don't realize that charging is a service, and customer satisfaction is what they should be chasing if they want to play the long game. A few networks like Tesla and Flo get this but a lot don't. Personally, I choose reliability over cost and convenience (within reason) when I choose where to charge. Attempting to save five bucks at a less reliable charger is just not worth the frustration to me on a road trip day. I'm probably not the only one who thinks that way.

I read somewhere (Flo's website?) that some forward thinking states are imposing financial penalties for unreliable chargers funded with public money. That's hope for the future.
 
C02less said:
from the original post

It could be worse: if you charge in Canada you usually pay by the minute not by the kw. So that 20kw charging rate from your EC charger will cost you 750% what you expected.
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Zef energy here in Minnesota the same , by the minute PLUS $5 connection fee !! For a 50kW dispenser/charger. Damn near drove me over the edge trying to charge a Chevy Bolt for 3 Minnesota winters.

Payment Required
DCFC $5.00 connection fee + $0.30/min Level 2 $2.00 per hour


So yeah, I can imagine the frustration of Canadians dealing with this nonsense on road trips.

Fortunately Zef is no longer the only charger in town , we have 6 now and Zef is usually empty
 
OneEV said:
Zef energy here in Minnesota the same , by the minute PLUS $5 connection fee !! For a 50kW dispenser/charger. Damn near drove me over the edge trying to charge a Chevy Bolt for 3 Minnesota winters.

Payment Required
DCFC $5.00 connection fee + $0.30/min Level 2 $2.00 per hour


So yeah, I can imagine the frustration of Canadians dealing with this nonsense on road trips.

Fortunately Zef is no longer the only charger in town , we have 6 now and Zef is usually empty
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Good. That's how it should work. Competition leads to that first gouging company like Zef out of the charging business.
 
C02less said:
from the original post

Most of the EA (and EC) chargers are made by BTC. Although I don't know how EA or EC responds to their reliability issues, but another well known Canadian charging network that uses BTC chargers almost exclusively really hates BTC and will dump them as soon as their contract is up. They claim that BTC turns each service request into a warranty fight which delays repairs. They also claim that BTC's repairs are made with used or defective parts which break again in a short time. Also, charging technicians I have talked to consider BTC the most unreliable. So it's not always as if networks are abandoning their unreliable networks, a large part of the problem is that they bought into bad equipment.

...

I read somewhere (Flo's website?) that some forward thinking states are imposing financial penalties for unreliable chargers funded with public money. That's hope for the future.
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Yeah, anecdotally I have not heard good things about BTC chargers. Apparently, EA doesn't have any issue with them because the newest station under construction near me is installing BTC.
 
marshall said:
Here in Washington state, at least five stations where paid for with taxpayer money. An additional 5 stations paid for by the Washington state taxpayers are now Shell Recharge locations.

Nissan also helped pay for a few EVgo stations in Seattle.

Financially, they are barely holding on. https://www.google.com/finance/quote/EVGO:NASDAQ

As far as EA, Washington state teamed up with GM to help pay for a couple of locations.

Also here in Washington state, we pay 75 dollars a year until July of 2025 to supply grant money for charging locations. After July 2025, the 75 bucks goes into general transportation money pile.
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wow
 
The charging network where I live is 100% tax payer funded and gets lumped in with the electric utility

Charging companies wont make money for awhile. Whats your point?
 
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