Frequent / Intermittent "Power Limited" Behavior

[Bitzens]

Hello,

I have a 2019 Niro EV (SX Touring) with just under 80,000 KMs. My daily commute is mostly highway, 130 KMs round trip.

Over the last 6 weeks my car has been briefly going into Power Limited mode during my drives (displays on screen with the turtle, I lose all power, then the message clears after 10 - 15 seconds and my power is restored and back to normal. Sometimes it happens once, sometimes it happens 3 times in a 1 hour drive. One drive it did it 10 times in less than an hour, and also triggered the EV system warning, and also ran the diagnostics on its own. It indicated that there was a possible problem with the battery management system and to have it checked, and that is when I brought it to the dealership the next day. The error cleared itself after it had been parked for a few hours.

Outdoor temp during this time when it happened was in the range of 5C to 15C. Doesn't seem to be a factor.

Can happen at 110kmh or 5kmh, or from a complete stop, speed is not a factor.

At first it seemed to be happening more when my SOC was below 45%, but it has also happened in the 80% range, 70s, 60s, etc so SOC doesn't seem to be a factor either.

Overall I haven't really lost any range on the battery, I still average around 415 KMs (displayed range when at 100% SOC) right now, I am still using the heat in the mornings. Once it warms up a bit more without running the heat in the mornings I will average around 440 KMs or more.

My original E710 motor imploded at about 20,000KM and was replaced with an E711.

I do charge to 100% once per week or two, I don't typically go below 15% except on rare occasions.

The dealership had my car all day and ran some of their own diagnostics and reset some things, stated they wanted to do some more investigating and open a case with Kia, but I haven't done that as it's not that bad yet. The car actually didn't have the issue for over two weeks after they reset whatever they reset, but now its starting to happen almost daily again. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this.

 

[Lektrons]

I have the same year and have not experienced that, have about 50k on the vehicle now. My motor was replaced because not a ticking noise that effected some of the early vehicles and it has been smooth since.

Sent from my SM-F926W using Tapatalk

 

[dark night]

Hi Have you had the 12 volt battery checked ? as it sounds like a low voltage control fault of the high volt main battery control system. Jim

 

[swiftgti]

I faced the same problem since Sep 2020 on my 2019 Niro EV. The dealer in Hong Kong (KLM motor) did nothing but just bullying that I mis-used the car and cause the problem.
Also they asked me to replace the 12V battery, for sure not working.

I checked by myself and found a fault code "Voltage Sensor B Failure" stored and asked KLM to focus on checking the voltage sensor wiring and connector of BCU. However they are unable to perform such "difficult" job, and told me that they will void my warranty as they found the BCU cover under the car was opened once. (which I never did this!)

Luckily, after KLM lifted up my car, opened the BCU cover and pull out the BCU for looking, the symptom re-occurred less frequently.
So, now it occurs only once or twice a week. If it occurs more frequently, say 3 or 4 times a day, or re-occurs everyday, I open the BCU cover and shake the connector for several times and it will be better.

I am frustrated with the dealer and never walked into their workshop for a whole year.

 

[Bitzens]

Hi Have you had the 12 volt battery checked ? as it sounds like a low voltage control fault of the high volt main battery control system. Jim

Thank you. No I haven't had it checked, I didn't associate this HV system issue with the 12V system but this is a good point. I am not fully versed in electronics but is a LV control fault an issue with the 12V battery itself, or could it be anywhere in the 12V system?

I haven't checked my 12V battery with a voltmeter but I do have a Bluetooth OBD2 adapter running with Torque Pro and my 12V battery reads at 13.8V or 13.9V and 32.x Amps when the car is running at the moment, when I go back and look at a screenshot I took earlier one time when I the issue was active it was 14.6V and the Amperage was reading in the negatives (I wasn't braking or decelerating). My 12V battery SOC is now 86 - 89% range but I remember this used to always be in the mid 90s. I am going to try turning off the Aux battery saver feature to see if my HV battery has been working to keep my 12V battery charged more than it should be.

 

[Bitzens]

I faced the same problem since Sep 2020 on my 2019 Niro EV. The dealer in Hong Kong (KLM motor) did nothing but just bullying that I mis-used the car and cause the problem.
Also they asked me to replace the 12V battery, for sure not working.

I checked by myself and found a fault code "Voltage Sensor B Failure" stored and asked KLM to focus on checking the voltage sensor wiring and connector of BCU. However they are unable to perform such "difficult" job, and told me that they will void my warranty as they found the BCU cover under the car was opened once. (which I never did this!)

Luckily, after KLM lifted up my car, opened the BCU cover and pull out the BCU for looking, the symptom re-occurred less frequently.
So, now it occurs only once or twice a week. If it occurs more frequently, say 3 or 4 times a day, or re-occurs everyday, I open the BCU cover and shake the connector for several times and it will be better.

I am frustrated with the dealer and never walked into their workshop for a whole year.

Thank you for this information! Frustrating that they wont attempt this repair for you. I will follow up once I have my dealership finish working on this and let you know if the BCU connections or the BCU itself ends up being my problem as well. At least I can reference this and try to steer them in this direction.

 

[Bitzens]

Hi Have you had the 12 volt battery checked ? as it sounds like a low voltage control fault of the high volt main battery control system. Jim

It's been a while but I wanted to post my follow up on this. Jim was right, my 12V battery was shot. I had turned off Aux battery saver and shortly after parked at the airport for 10 days, battery was dead when I got back. Didn't bother testing it, I just replaced it and haven't had one instance of this "power limited" issue since.

PS my dealership wanted $298 for a replacement battery (standard lead acid, nothing special), I bought an equivalent from Costco with a better warranty for $129.

 

[CR EV]

It's been a while but I wanted to post my follow up on this. Jim was right, my 12V battery was shot. I had turned off Aux battery saver and shortly after parked at the airport for 10 days, battery was dead when I got back. Didn't bother testing it, I just replaced it and haven't had one instance of this "power limited" issue since.

PS my dealership wanted $298 for a replacement battery (standard lead acid, nothing special), I bought an equivalent from Costco with a better warranty for $129.

Dealerships don't see us EV guys as often as ICE guys...they do want to get what they can: $60 to change the cabin air filter is my example.

 

[Fred Silver]

Thanks everyone. I've had the same problem. The car went to the dealer today. It's a 2022, still under warranty. Hopefully they will do a thorough evaluation. If it's the 12 V., I might bite the bullet and replace it. The dealer is across the street from Costco.

 

[James Bradley]

Would there be a reason that my 2022 doesn't have the Aux Battery settings in the menu? Manual is pretty clear where this is located but I simply don't have this as an option.

 

[KiwiME]

On the Kona it was deleted a few years ago as a setting since turning it off could eventually lead to a dead 12V battery.

 

[Bitzens]

So less than a year later this issue has resurfaced and it's annoying as ever. Unless my new 12v battery has packed it in already I'm thinking there is more to this issue than just the battery itself.

My car is heading to the dealer next week for a new gear drive / box / transmission, I'm getting them to check this as well while it's there (unless it's related but I doubt it).

 

[Roman Melnyk]

Well, after reading all the posts and having the same issue and having the dealer find nothing each time I presented the issue, I decided to investigate the issue my self and do some data collection via the ODB scanner and the car scanner software for android. I created several pages to monitor the battery packs and waitied for the problem to show up. Low and behold I finally tracked it down to a single battery pack #58 ( in my case). As it turns out, I saw the volatge suddenly drip 1.5 volts multiple times in a few seconds and that instantly triggers the "power limited" I was fast enough to take a screen snapshot of the pages. Here they are, now KIA has no choice to accept there is a battery pack issue and/or BMS. I will report my findings to the dealership when I get back to my home city and keep everyone posted. Cheers

 

[Kia Guy]

Well, after reading all the posts and having the same issue and having the dealer find nothing each time I presented the issue, I decided to investigate the issue my self and do some data collection via the ODB scanner and the car scanner software for android. I created several pages to monitor the battery packs and waitied for the problem to show up. Low and behold I finally tracked it down to a single battery pack #58 ( in my case). As it turns out, I saw the volatge suddenly drip 1.5 volts multiple times in a few seconds and that instantly triggers the "power limited" I was fast enough to take a screen snapshot of the pages. Here they are, now KIA has no choice to accept there is a battery pack issue and/or BMS. I will report my findings to the dealership when I get back to my home city and keep everyone posted. Cheers

Nice work - however, it is completely ridiculous that you had to do this investigative work. 99% of the population would not have the wherewithal to do this and would be stuck managing the problem until something more catastrophic occurred. Ridiculous.

 

[Paul K]

My next EV will likely be a Nissa Ariya, VW id.4 or a Kia EV6. The Ariya is virtually unavailable except for some really expensive high end trims that I don't want to pay for. The id.4 is a maybe. Not nearly as sexy as the Ariya or EV6 and they've had their software issues in the past. The EV6 has been under consideration but with problems people seem to be having with both the vehicles and the dealers has me wondering. The main draw for the Ariya is that my Leaf has been rock solid dependable. I'm waiting for selection to improve before making any decisions.

 

[KiwiME]

The car should trigger a dash light on a cell balance difference of 0.1 V or greater but perhaps it's not sustained long enough to catch.

"2.5V" sounds almost like a bad connection to the BMS as that's a lot for a cell (or 3 in parallel if it's a 2018-2022 model) to change, plus that might be the minimum readable value for that parameter. If it were a loose connection in the power bus there would be a lot more drama.

Since Hyundai/Kia (and everyone else unfortunately) haven't reached the point where packs can be repaired by dealers, it will mean a new pack.

 

[Roman Melnyk]

Nice work - however, it is completely ridiculous that you had to do this investigative work. 99% of the population would not have the wherewithal to do this and would be stuck managing the problem until something more catastrophic occurred. Ridiculous.

Thanks, but the dealers are all clueless, it's amazing how little they know about troubleshooting the car, and even with all this data, they are still sceptical. Unbelieveable. So disappointed. Last Kia electric for me. :-(

 

[James Bradley]

So, I have been having this same issue pretty regularly here recently (2022) and as of this morning I was also able to catch cell #58 in a low voltage state. 2.8v was the lowest I caught it and then it stabilized closer to 3v. Still had the turtle icon until the voltage returned to 3.7v.


Mine got a replacement battery @about 15k miles and was a manufacturers buyback when I bought it Oct '22, I have about 45k miles now.

 

[Roman Melnyk]

Hi, that is so weird that you have the same cell 58 issue. The chances that 2 packs have the same issue is like one in 1000 if not more
So lends me to believe that this maybe a BMS software issue or wiring on cell 58. But more likely software, I am surprised that KIA has not looked into this. If we can confirm another person with the same issue, then it for sure is software. Thanks for the feedback, so what are you doing now? Just living with it or the dealer is looking at it.?

 

[Lindar79]

I have the same issue. Kia eniro 22. About 8 months ago started coming up with the turtle sign, no matter the mileage. Sometimes twice in one journey sometimes not for days. Went in to the garage in may and the dealer sent back saying they could not replicate the fault. Booked back in august went in October and I still don’t have it back. Dealer says they cannot replicate the fault and wants me to take it back. I cant believe they are saying this when I’ve reported it as being unsafe ! Last time it lost power I was on the motorway !