Idea: kill switch?

[hobbit]

For those who have poked around in the electrical systems, or aspire to ... with various news about Hyundai
and Kia cars as theft targets, often via exploitation of weaknesses in the supposed "security' systems, one
common mitigation type is a secret switch to disable the car from being started and/or driven. In the
Prius, I had a switch in the fuel pump power line up under the dash, that I could reach easily with a toe, and
turning that on or off became part of operational muscle-memory. I'm looking to do the analog on the Kona.

A semi-obvious thing might be treatment of the brake-switch wiring, to prevent entering "driveable" state,
but there are probably other ways to tackle it. I've tested an idea or two around the shift switch, with some
promising results. I'm loath to mess with the CAN bus, that could cause bad side effects.

Of course trying to fully document such a thing on a webpage would give the secret away, wouldn't it...

_H*

 

[PRGDénia]

All keyless entry Kia and Hyundai models. Including the Kona Electric are immune to this “KIA Challenge” theft that is doing the rounds right now. This is because keyless entry models are fitted with a separate electronic immobiliser.

 

[marshall]

They are suppose to have a software update to fix the issue.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/hyundai-kia-campaign-prevent-vehicle-theft

 

[PRGDénia]

They are suppose to have a software update to fix the issue.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/hyundai-kia-campaign-prevent-vehicle-theft

All Kona Electric cars with push button start (is that all of them?) have an immobiliser and are not vulnerable to the “KIA Challenge” theft attack. So no software update required for this.

 

[KiwiME]

@hobbit's concerns have nothing to do with the Kia Challenge.

 

[PRGDénia]

@hobbit's concerns have nothing to do with the Kia Challenge.

For those who have poked around in the electrical systems, or aspire to ... with various news about Hyundai
and Kia cars as theft targets, often via exploitation of weaknesses in the supposed "security' systems

_H*

Can we be sure about that without a view from Hobbit?

With an integral immobiliser on the Kona electric wouldn’t the only other viable attack on the security systems be a relay attack on the smart key? All that would be needed to prevent that would be a faraday pouch to store the keys, which I use.

 

[Ferenc Jakab]

Can we be sure about that without a view from Hobbit?

With an integral immobiliser on the Kona electric wouldn’t the only other viable attack on the security systems be a relay attack on the smart key? All that would be needed to prevent that would be a faraday pouch to store the keys, which I use.

Because my iPhone frequently misses calls and messages while in my pocket I reckon my keys are pretty safe.

 

[PRGDénia]

Because my iPhone frequently misses calls and messages while in my pocket I reckon my keys are pretty safe.

Because the thing in my pocket that has totally different emf, ranging and functional characteristics doesn’t work I assume my car key is safe from a relay attack.

 

[Ferenc Jakab]

Because the thing in my pocket that has totally different emf, ranging and functional characteristics doesn’t work I assume my car key is safe from a relay attack.

Yes!

 

[hobbit]

Actually, I'm thinking more toward a scenario where someone has control of the legit key ... via
theft or carjacking or whatever, and is trying to drive off. And can't because I've stealthed the
"killswitch" condition in a way that they didn't see. Either in realtime, or when I've parked someplace.

Yes, I do realize there's some auto theft that simply tows the vehicle and stuffs it into a container
for offshore shipment and parting-out; that's not the threat model I'm trying to handle here.

_H*

 

[rpark]

Actually, I'm thinking more toward a scenario where someone has control of the legit key ... via
theft or carjacking or whatever, and is trying to drive off. <snip> _H*

What your looking for is a "4G LTE remote control". It is when the device number is called a switch will be turned off. Yes a cellular plan would have to be bought. A "bring your own phone, starter plan with no data" is relatively inexpensive.

Google "GSM 4G LTE Gate Opener G202 SMS Remote Control Single Relay"

 

[Keith Dowey]

It would be easy to install something like this on the negative leg of the 12v battery. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203508352888
I personally would just insure the car for an agreed sum.

 

[insightman]

It would be easy to install something like this on the negative leg of the 12v battery.

I don't think you'd enjoy the dashboard light show every time you reconnected the current from the 12V battery. Also, you might lose all the settings you chose since taking delivery of your Kona.

 

[Keith Dowey]

I don't think you'd enjoy the dashboard light show every time you reconnected the current from the 12V battery. Also, you might lose all the settings you chose since taking delivery of your Kona.

Why does that happen when the 12v battery goes flat? Or if you disconnect the 12v battery?
I will have to try it.

 

[insightman]

Why does that happen when the 12v battery goes flat? Or if you disconnect the 12v battery?
I will have to try it.

I can't really answer for the Kona. It's possible that the Kona has a non-volatile memory that retains all settings, but I doubt it. Too many times I've seen my Clarity's multi-warning messages after charging its dead 12V battery. I don't drive it enough to keep the 12V battery charged because I always choose the MINI Cooper SE for local trips. Actually, if I'd just go turn the Clarity ON once in a while, the traction battery would charge the 12V battery, but I forget.

 

[KiwiME]

It would not be a good idea to disconnect the 12V battery because both 12V and traction battery maintenance takes place while parked, each battery using the other battery to carry that out. There will be more stealthy and clever ways to deter theft without disturbing normal operation, it's just a matter of putting the time into studying the schematics.

 

[hobbit]

Also the intent is to still have the car's systems *seem* normally functional, just not be able to drive, which
would also harder to debug in a hurry.

Messing with the main 12V isn't on the table for this.. it should be a low-current and zero risk hack.

_H*

 

[Keith Dowey]

It would not be a good idea to disconnect the 12V battery because both 12V and traction battery maintenance takes place while parked, each battery using the other battery to carry that out. There will be more stealthy and clever ways to deter theft without disturbing normal operation, it's just a matter of putting the time into studying the schematics.

Yes good point, oh well it was only a thought, I personally think the standard anti theft device in the car is fine.

Like I said in the original post, just make sure your insurance is current and adequate. LOL

 

[mtd]

I suppose you could wire something up in series with the fireman's loop which, no question, will immobilize the vehicle. I have no idea what collateral damage that would cause, or if it would be any different than disconnecting the 12 volt battery. Given the wire size the loop is likely some kind of low current control circuit.

 

[mtd]

All that would be needed to prevent that would be a faraday pouch to store the keys, which I use.

I tried a supposed Faraday pouch and it clearly didn't work - approaching the car with the key in the pouch caused it to wake up as usual. Wrapping the fob in aluminum foil, however, was very effective.