Magic Dock is now live at some US Tesla Supercharger Stations

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My Daddy used to say, "Only two things will make a man unhappy: (1) not getting what they asked for, and (2) getting what they asked for."
  • Supercharger fees greater than other CCS-1 fast DC chargers.
  • Seeing other CCS-1 EVs blocking two or even three Supercharger lanes. - They can get pissed at the non-Tesla EV makers who screwed up their designs and irresponsibly left fast DC charging to a network funded by the diesel fines ... not customer satisfaction.
  • 800 V EVs charging slowly at their vehicle limited speed - they have to use expensive, heavy, internal DC-to-DC step up voltage converters from the ~400 V Supercharger to their 800 V internal battery.
  • Small statue EV owners get an 'in your face' example of lighter weight, cheaper, more reliable Tesla designed Supercharger.
  • Seeing Tesla EVs more rapidly go-in and go-out while they witness their progress.
  • Discovery that some non-Tesla EVs have broken CCS-1 charging protocols.
One good thing is newer Tesla Supercharger stations may have deeper or pass-through charger lanes. Centered EV charging points may remain SOL (Something Out of Luck.) Pressure will increase on non-Tesla EV makers to adopt the Tesla standard plug and location ... or continue to use the penalty fine paid, expensive, unreliable, 3d party CCS-1 only networks.

The opportunities to poke fun at non-Tesla EV owners unhappy with their Supercharging experience will remain endless. Hummm, there may be an opportunity to make and sell CCS-1 extension cords.

Bob Wilson
 
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Fastnf said:
Magic Dock is now live at some US Tesla supercharger Stations. Here is an article from
Electrek with a video of a Chevy Bolt Charging using the Magic Dock

https://electrek.co/2023/02/28/chevy-bolt-tesla-supercharger-magic-dock/
Click to expand...
It's nice Tesla has opened up the network, however one still requires a cellphone and app to charge, useless to me as I don't own one, and use RFID cards at DC chargers. This should be addressed as I am sure not to be the only one, and should be a part/parcel of the compensation package the Federal government will be providing.
On a second note. in this video @ 0:20, the directions are to push the handle into the dock first to release which is probably why the Bolt user had a hard time to release the handle. After some time I can see people not doing this and causing maintenance issues.
 
Every tech YouTuber in the country headed to upstate New York and the one upgraded location in California to report on this. From the videos I have seen, it seems to work quite well.

This is a great development, and has the potential over time to be devastating to the CCS charging networks, EA, EVGo, Francis, etc. With those networks’ units being pretty much 40-50% non-functional at any given time and at any given site, with units bricked, dead, stuck in software updates, restricted to 30kw or otherwise unusable, Tesla’s extremely reliable Supercharger network will possibly become the preferred charging network by default for all EV’s.

I have no problem with this, other than the fact that there aren’t many Supercharger locations across the US, especially here in the middle of the country. It can be hundreds of miles between Interstates here in the middle of the country. There are dozens of CCS DCFC’s here in Oklahoma but only 6 Superchargers, and all of those except one are in the central third of the state, and only located on Interstate highwas. So CCS charging will still have to be the main method of on the road charging, at least here in this one state.

Tesla needs to build hundreds of new Supercharger locations, and place them along non-Interstate roads such as US and State highways. They Interstates they have well-served, now it’s time to build out the other 97% of roadways.




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bwilson4web said:
No problem as not everyone has to use them.
Click to expand...

That's the same kind of snooty attitude that only supports Tesla et al casually saying "F accessibility" to
the general public. Congratulations.

What they ought to be doing, at a minimum, is putting chip-card readers on the chargers, and not that garbage
from Nayax that keeps failing on the EA and other units. *Anyone* with a suitable card, likely far more common than
the combination of smartphone / limited-distribution Tesla app / decent cell-data service ... should be
able to drive up and use one of these. What if the gas stations imposed this kind of discrimination
on their customer base? There would be immediate revolt.

_H*
 
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hobbit said:
That's the same kind of snooty attitude that only supports Tesla et al casually saying "F accessibility" to
the general public. Congratulations.

What they ought to be doing, at a minimum, is putting chip-card readers on the chargers, and not that garbage
from Nayax that keeps failing on the EA and other units. *Anyone* with a suitable card, likely far more common than
the combination of smartphone / limited-distribution Tesla app / decent cell-data service ... should be
able to drive up and use one of these. What if the gas stations imposed this kind of discrimination
on their customer base? There would be immediate revolt.

_H*
Click to expand...
Well if he chooses not to use a cell phone, that's his choice, and he will have to live with the restriction that comes with it. I don't feel sorry for him, and I don't own a Tesla.

Heck, even poor folks have a cell phone here, since it's considered a life line.

Chip readers can be hacked. So who pays when that happens?

Plus now you have to have a debit card or credit card. Is that fair to the unbanked? Do we need accept cash too? Do you see where this is going?
 
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IMG_0411.webpIMG_0412.webp

As an example, the first picture shows all the DC Fast Chargers in Oklahoma. The second shows all the Tesla Supercharger locations in the state. Note that they are all on the Interstates and not a single one in the southeast third of the state.

From these it is quite evident that opening up the Superchargers to non-Teslas is not going to have much effect here.


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Thanks for posting the charging maps. I helps explain to others the challenge of Oklahoma.

FYI, Monday, March 6 close to noon, I will leave Huntsville AL for Las Vegas. I should be passing through Oklahoma shortly after midnight.
  • Full charge in Van Buren AR then depending on weather, choices:
    • To Tulsa Supercharger
    • Biology break Golden Pony Casino, Okemah OK
    • Follow 65 mph semi-trailer
  • OKC Supercharger
  • Weatherford OK - breakfast biology break
Travel at night, especially midnight to dawn, is an excellent way to avoid traffic and surface head winds. Each Supercharger stop starts with a biology break followed by an optional 'cat nap' while charging. My first day goal is to reach Albuquerque and an overnight stay at a motel with free charging. The second day, I drive to Las Vegas.

Bob Wilson
 
My opinion was earned by personal experience:
hobbit said:
. . .
  • chip-card readers on the chargers, and not that garbage from Nayax that keeps failing on the EA and other units.
  • *Anyone* with a suitable card, likely far more common than the combination of smartphone / limited-distribution Tesla app / decent cell-data service
  • What if the gas stations imposed this kind of discrimination on their customer base? There would be immediate revolt.
Click to expand...
Edited for brevity, let me explain. It was the abysmal chip and credit card readers that led at least half of my failed EA charging sessions. I could cell phone reach the EA support and get a workaround. But Blink is impossible.

With the CCS-1 BMW i3-REx, I began collecting network specific, RFID cards only to soon discover they are also unreliable. Chargepoint failed to send me a replacement card and Blink remains totally clueless with one exception ... if their link to home is down, they seem to default to ON with free charging.

I once had a Shell gas card to get their discount. One payment was two days late and all of my 'savings' disappeared into their profit penalty payment. Lowes did the same. I simply paid the balance and cut their cards into small pieces. The sweet smell of cheaper gas was replaced by the bitter pill of obscene billing practices.

Instead of RFID cards and Apps, the right answer is the vehicle to respond with a VIN to the charger, like Teslas have always done. Then handing billing automatically with no card or App or other peripheral nonsense. I even had a credit card go stale and Tesla let me complete my charge.

Bob Wilson
 
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bwilson4web said:
Thanks for posting the charging maps. I helps explain to others the challenge of Oklahoma.

FYI, Monday, March 6 close to noon, I will leave Huntsville AL for Las Vegas. I should be passing through Oklahoma shortly after midnight.
  • Full charge in Van Buren AR then depending on weather, choices:
    • To Tulsa Supercharger
    • Biology break Golden Pony Casino, Okemah OK
    • Follow 65 mph semi-trailer
  • OKC Supercharger
  • Weatherford OK - breakfast biology break
Travel at night, especially midnight to dawn, is an excellent way to avoid traffic and surface head winds. Each Supercharger stop starts with a biology break followed by an optional 'cat nap' while charging. My first day goal is to reach Albuquerque and an overnight stay at a motel with free charging. The second day, I drive to Las Vegas.

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

That should be a nice trip. If you are driving a Tesla, make sure you get that full charge at Van Buren, AR, because you will be facing the “Great I-40 Gap”, well known among Tesla owners as 185 miles with no Superchargers all the way to Oklahoma City. Why this exists, no one knows. Tesla has said for years they plan to add locations but never have. West of OKC you are fine as far as you want to go, all the way to California.

That said, there are some Francis CCS locations that can help a Tesla out in a pinch, provided you find a functional dispenser. Like EA, close to half of Francis’s units are non-functional, and I say this from experience. There are Francis units, as well as EA units, in Oklahoma that have been out of service for as much as a year, and there are some entire Francis sites that are unable to charge an EGMP platform EV such as the Ioniq5 and EV 6. I have an Ioniq5 and it can be extremely maddening to get to a site and find out that none of the dispensers can charge your car.


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Glenn Gore said:
the “Great I-40 Gap”, well known among Tesla owners as 185 miles with no Superchargers all the way to Oklahoma City
Click to expand...
I have experience with Supercharger gaps:
  • Tesla trip planner expects to go to the Tulsa SuperCharger - 242 miles to OKC
  • Two casinos along the route with free L2 charging - 208 miles to OKC
My average, block-to-block speed including Superchargering is ~55 mph. So 34 extra miles going to Tulsa would take 34/55 ~= 37 minutes. This is easily enough time to get a charge to reach OKC and take a comfortable biology break at either of the free casinos and avoids Tulsa Supercharger fees.

Bob Wilson
 
Apologies for interupting the conversation flow, but I wanted to share this video by @Tom Moloughney of his trying out the Tesla Magic Dock with his Ford F-150 Lightning. *** someone mentioned upthread, every tech YouTuber raced to New York and Tom happened to charge beside Marques Brownlee (perhaps the most popular techtuber of all).
Anyway, I thought Tom made a great video, so check it out if you like.
 
It is a good video that also shows the problems with CCS-1 charging at a Supercharger:
  • Horizontal charging flap - instead of hinged on top or away from charging station, the Ford horizontal flap adds more distance that today's Supercharger cables have to reach. This encourages the bad habit of parking that blocks other charging lanes. In contrast, my Tesla cover flips forward, out of the way of the cable.
  • Wrong side - another bad Ford behavior, the left side, away from front CCS-1 socket means two charging lanes are occupied. In Tom's case, the other CCS-1 car was adjacent so the two of them used three charging lanes.
  • Must be Tesla's fault - instead of complaining about Ford's poorly placed CCS-1 socket, the Tesla Supercharger design is blamed. No, no, no, Ford failed to put the CCS-1 socket closer for either a front-in parking or rear-in parking charging session.
  • Excessively heavy CCS-1 connector and cable - have a small person weighing ~120 lbs (55 kg) using any CCS-1 charging cable versus a Tesla Supercharger plug.
  • Where is the cold weather compare and contrast - Tesla cables work well in freezing weather but more than one CSS-1 cable has similar cold weather performance of the frozen cables Tom excellently shows in his home EVSE videos. Suggestion, Tom should used the curve of a stored Supercharger cable as the 'standard' form to quantify EVSE cable blend radius and force.
Kyle made another excellent video that began to introduce the electrical power problems of CCS-1 at a Tesla Supercharger. He included the current limit of the CCS-1 adapter but sad to say, I was unable to find it later or I would post the link here. But some of us know Ohm's law and can point out:
  • Longer cables lose power - the resistance increases with the cable length so the power loss is the square of the current. Compare and contrast the relatively show Tesla Supercharger cable to the longer, CCS-1 cables.
  • Cable costs vary by diameter and length - copper is far from free and is one of two major cost drivers. Longer and fatter cables cost more which is why a higher voltage charger, 800 V, is less bad than a lower voltage, 400 V system. The next cost drivers are the connector followed by the insulation. In mission critical electrical power, it is common to find external metal or other shielding to prevent chafing wearing through the insulation.
  • Connector power loss - each connector has a certain amount of contact area and material used in the power pin. A compare and contrast of the Tesla versus typical CCS-1 pin material and area would give a clue to how much power is lost and heat generated. Not so much of a problem when cold, it is common to see +100 F (+38 C) in the hot season. This is especially true when directly exposed to the sun which is another good reason for a top-hinged, socket cover.
  • Connector material thermal limits - not all plastics are made the same. Use a Weller or similar temperature controlled soldering iron to test the 'melt' temperature of the plug.
A retired network engineer and operating system programmer, I have to stop now as my blood pressure is rising. I have had decades dealing with cable and connector problems that still 'piss me off.' Others may have experience, forgotten or forgiven their life experiences.

Bob Wilson
 
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You've already seen my take on Blink. Not even in the running for CCS infrastructure anyway.

A credit/debit card may not be in everybody's pocket either, but is a far simpler use case than being
*able* to put an app on a phone, have live cell-data at a given charge site, and have an existing
financial relationship with the network. That's all I'm pointing out about degrees of accessibility.
True chip-only based transactions are still relatively secure, but I could insert a whole 'nother rant
about how the US has screwed up and compromised the original intent of EMV cards.

There was a glimmer of hope that some networks would implement Autocharge, a simpler protocol
than CCS using a vehicle's network MAC address as a simple authenticator and more similar to the
original Tesla CAN-based supercharger interaction. That could work today on my Kona, without
any upgrades needed to the car. Sadly, to support full CCS "plug & charge", my car would need
different firmware in its charge-control box, which Hyundai is never going to make available.
See the problem here? The answer from manufacturers is "buy a newer car".

I wonder if Tesla would be smart enough to implement Autocharge and let a large potential market
sign up on their website? I don't want their junkware app on my phone, but a one-shot interaction via
my existing web browser to get set up would be fine.

_H*
 
I gather that V4 superchargers will have somewhat longer cables and be able to properly support cars with 800V architectures. I am kind of guessing that most of the Magic Dock we will see will end up being on new V4, and not as much retrofitting V3.
 
I have no problem with Magic dock being on the pull-in Supercharger lane(s).

The best payment is reading the car VIN.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
I have no problem with Magic dock being on the pull-in Supercharger lane(s).

The best payment is reading the car VIN.
Click to expand...

CCS does provide the VIN number over the wire - that's how EVgo's 'autocharge' system works (not the certificate-based system that ISO 15118 seems to want people to use).

But right now there is still a need to use the app to 'unlock' the Magic Dock, so to some extent using the VIN is redundant.
 
Watching these videos made apparent to me the folly of EV makers treating the charge port as an analogue to a gasoline filler tube. The filler tube needs to be reasonably close to the tank as the liquid fuel needs to enter the tank via gravity. But EV charging is just a few wires that can reach anywhere on the car body, and cars like Tesla that put them on corners seem to make most sense.
 
Puppethead said:
Watching these videos made apparent to me the folly of EV makers treating the charge port as an analogue to a gasoline filler tube. The filler tube needs to be reasonably close to the tank as the liquid fuel needs to enter the tank via gravity. But EV charging is just a few wires that can reach anywhere on the car body, and cars like Tesla that put them on corners seem to make most sense.
Click to expand...
This all day long.
Nissan got it right with the LEAF and then a dozen years later when they release Ariya, the charge port is behind the wheel of the passenger side's front fender with a chare door that opens toward the front of the car. Boggles my mind how they can get it so wrong.
 
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