Thanks Clarity for saving our $200 food. Thanks Honda Engineers for "charge mode".

[oko]

We had a 2.5 days blackout here in Austin. Some people are still powerless since last Wednesday. My Clarity saved our food and charged our phones/laptop, with a $75 inverter. Here's what went exactly right:

1-Unlike my ex-Bolt, Clarity never turns itself off when you put it on ON mode.
2-Inverter I have is only 500 watts. I was afraid that it will not be enough for "surge" power when compressor starts, or when fridge went into defrost mode. Both fears did not come thru.
3-Some people were saying that "true sine inverter" is needed for fridge. We have a relatively new GE fridge and this cheap inverter worked just fine.
4-I no longer have a question in my mind now about why there is a "charge mode" when you long press the HV button! For this freeze, I could drive to a charger, but in 2021 freeze, I wouldn't be able to drive anywhere. That when "charge mode" would be very useful (assuming I could get the car out of the garage).

My only surprise was this: Although usable energy in the battery is 14KWhr, and my fridge uses about 1.4Kwhr per day (I have smart plug attached to it since day 1), the battery was depleted much faster. I am not sure why. I turned off the car at nights and disconnected the inverter (fearing battery may run out and the engine will turn itself on in the garage), but the battery lasted only 2 days. I am guessing internal systems are also using a lot of power when the car is in drive mode, or maybe my inverter or the Clarity's 12V converter is not that efficient.

 

[Tek_Freek]

Excellent. I have wondered how well it would work.

 

[Dan Albrich]

I know what HV Charge does, but this only helps you if your EV range is low. I presume you were pressing HV charge to build up EV range from the gas engine correct?
-- Asked another way, say you had 100% EV charge when the cold weather event came, would you have needed HV charge at all?

The reason I ask, is I've always assumed Clarity would -- even with very low state of charge, just flip on the gas engine as needed to keep the 12v supplied. But perhaps this is incorrect, and perhaps you didn't want the engine sound at odd hours?

 

[megreyhair]

HV charge will charge the batt packs to about 50%. You will want to HV charge it during the day when the car is outside. You don't want ISE running overnight in the garage. But then ISE will automatically kicks in when charge drops below 2 bars. So there is no guarantee ISE will stay off when you leave the car in "on" mode.

 

[Landshark]

Some people were saying that "true sine inverter" is needed for fridge. We have a relatively new GE fridge and this cheap inverter worked just fine.

My only surprise was this: Although usable energy in the battery is 14KWhr, and my fridge uses about 1.4Kwhr per day (I have smart plug attached to it since day 1), the battery was depleted much faster. I am not sure why. I turned off the car at nights and disconnected the inverter (fearing battery may run out and the engine will turn itself on in the garage), but the battery lasted only 2 days. I am guessing internal systems are also using a lot of power when the car is in drive mode, or maybe my inverter or the Clarity's 12V converter is not that efficient.

A MSW inverter will run a residential refrigerator. However, over time, it may also damage the refrigerator. There are 500-1000W PSW inverters available at the same price point as your MSW inverter.

Check the owners manual for the refrigerator to see if there is any mention of the warranty being voided for installation in an RV. Such language was, and may still be, included due to the prevalence of MSW inverter usage in RV’s. If I were in your position, I’d pony up another Franklin to eliminate the risk of a premature failure of a new refrigerator.

Freezing temperatures impact useable capacity. You may have had as little as 9-10kWh’s available, assuming that the battery started out with a full charge. Inverter efficiency is typically higher that 90%, even on small, cheap units. I don’t know what the baseline load is on a Clarity, with the DC/DC converter enabled and all climate controls and accessories turned off.

You mentioned that the refrigerator uses 1.4kWh’s per day. Did you measure consumption while using the inverter? It’s possible that the practice of unplugging the refrigerator at night allowed the internal temperature to increase to a level that caused the refrigerator to cycle for lengthy period when it was plugged in the following morning.

 

[Dan Albrich]

Oh and yes, the point about not running the engine in a garage is well understood as basic life-safety. I didn't include with my question, but if I ever do something like this, step 1 will be to move the car out doors (i.e. into my driveway- assuming I can) before leaving it on and with the understanding that the gas engine will run (and exhaust will occur).

 

[oko]

Oh and yes, the point about not running the engine in a garage is well understood as basic life-safety. I didn't include with my question, but if I ever do something like this, step 1 will be to move the car out doors (i.e. into my driveway- assuming I can) before leaving it on and with the understanding that the gas engine will run (and exhaust will occur).

Correct. I actually did not have a long enough power cable from outside to the kitchen. And there was freezing rain, trees breaking limbs and even whole tress falling down (in our yard, one medium size tree fell down, almost all other had broken limbs) so I wouldn't be comfortable to leave the car outside anyway.

To prevent the car engine from running, I never let the battery go down below 15%. I started with 78%, in two days, it was 18%. So it consumed 30% (I guess ~5Kwhr) per day. But I also charged my laptop, cell phones and some portable chargers with it (though I think they should have minimal effect).

 

[oko]

HV charge will charge the batt packs to about 50%. You will want to HV charge it during the day when the car is outside. You don't want ISE running overnight in the garage. But then ISE will automatically kicks in when charge drops below 2 bars. So there is no guarantee ISE will stay off when you leave the car in "on" mode.

Yes, that's why I stopped the car and unhooked everything before going to bed. I checked the car every 2 hour or so during day. I also thought I could hear engine starting during the day.

 

[oko]

A MSW inverter will run a residential refrigerator. However, over time, it may also damage the refrigerator. There are 500-1000W PSW inverters available at the same price point as your MSW inverter.

Check the owners manual for the refrigerator to see if there is any mention of the warranty being voided for installation in an RV. Such language was, and may still be, included due to the prevalence of MSW inverter usage in RV’s. If I were in your position, I’d pony up another Franklin to eliminate the risk of a premature failure of a new refrigerator.

Freezing temperatures impact useable capacity. You may have had as little as 9-10kWh’s available, assuming that the battery started out with a full charge. Inverter efficiency is typically higher that 90%, even on small, cheap units. I don’t know what the baseline load is on a Clarity, with the DC/DC converter enabled and all climate controls and accessories turned off.

You mentioned that the refrigerator uses 1.4kWh’s per day. Did you measure consumption while using the inverter? It’s possible that the practice of unplugging the refrigerator at night allowed the internal temperature to increase to a level that caused the refrigerator to cycle for lengthy period when it was plugged in the following morning.

What I read is, the newer fridges with variable-speed compressors are perfectly okay with MSW. Of course those opinions might be wrong. Some people say they called GE and Whirlpool asking this and the CSRs had no clue. The reason is for this is these compressors use DC, not AC, as far as I understand. Ours have variable speed compressor for sure.

You might be absolutely right about fridge using more power since it is unplugged overnight. I have remote thermometer and the fridge side went up to 47F (from 34) and the freezer side up to 17F (from 0) when unplugged.

 

[Landshark]

Clarity never turns itself off when you put it on ON mode.

To prevent the car engine from running, I never let the battery go down below 15%. I started with 78%, in two days, it was 18%. So it consumed 30% (I guess ~5Kwhr) per day. But I also charged my laptop, cell phones and some portable chargers with it (though I think they should have minimal effect).

True, the Clarity will not turn off when placed in ON mode. Will the engine ever start if it is not placed in READY mode?

Keep in mind that available capacity is reduced in freezing temperatures. You may have used 30% of 9kWh’s, or~3kWh’s/day.

 

[Dan Albrich]

Geez, sorry to hear about it. I did see some of the event on national news. Living in Oregon basically all my life, I am or was fairly used to freezing rain in the winter time. It used to be an annual event, but with climate change, I don't see it much now. It's been some years (maybe 20) since it was common where I live. And I enjoy snow, but I don't think anyone enjoys freezing rain...

Best, -Dan

 

[oko]

Geez, sorry to hear about it. I did see some of the event on national news. Living in Oregon basically all my life, I am or was fairly used to freezing rain in the winter time. It used to be an annual event, but with climate change, I don't see it much now. It's been some years (maybe 20) since it was common where I live. And I enjoy snow, but I don't think anyone enjoys freezing rain...

Best, -Dan

Thanks Dan! I agree, freezing rain is much worse than snow. This year's was worst of all the ones I experienced in the last 28 years. Thousands of trees, some 100+ years old, got killed or damaged.

 

[Dan Albrich]

Our last major event was in 2016 (Eugene, OR). Sounds like what you had. I was literally afraid to go outside. I live in a natural oak forest and the cracks from the trees sounded a bit like small artillery. At the time I still owned my prior home (was thinking to rent it, but ended up selling), anyway, both roofs were damaged. One large oak fell across my new home puncturing the roof in several places. Water damage and new roofing on both houses resulted. I think the tree cleanup alone was more than 10K, not counting structure damages. I needed a professional logging crew with a skid and a semi truck to get the oak off my house. And of course, since some of my neighbors had it as bad or worse, I had a hard time hiring anyone to help us. Anyway for a couple months rooftop tarping became my new skill. But even for someone who's seen a lot of freezing rain, 2016 was exceptional here.

 

[oko]

Our last major event was in 2016 (Eugene, OR). Sounds like what you had. I was literally afraid to go outside. I live in a natural oak forest and the cracks from the trees sounded a bit like small artillery. At the time I still owned my prior home (was thinking to rent it, but ended up selling), anyway, both roofs were damaged. One large oak fell across my new home puncturing the roof in several places. Water damage and new roofing on both houses resulted. I think the tree cleanup alone was more than 10K, not counting structure damages. I needed a professional logging crew with a skid and a semi truck to get the oak off my house. And of course, since some of my neighbors had it as bad or worse, I had a hard time hiring anyone to help us. Anyway for a couple months rooftop tarping became my new skill. But even for someone who's seen a lot of freezing rain, 2016 was exceptional here.

Wow that's awful Dan. I hope you got some or all of your expenses from your insurance. Our own experience is nothing compared to yours.

But after reading about the earthquake in Turkey/Syria, I really feel ashamed to complain about losing power for 2.5 days. What we had was absolutely nothing compared to what millions experienced there, and what maybe billions experience every single day.

 

[Dan Albrich]

2016 was expensive for me. I think the total cost of repairs on my new home were about $40,000, and insurance paid 30K. The 10K wasn't covered. they considered the tree removal out of scope even though it had to be done. I also had to get the widowmakers out of the back yard but not covered.

Oh and definitely no complaints. We were able to sell our old house and I was very glad to have one home to care for. The new house was repaired, so we did fine. I keep the folks in Turkey/Syria in my prayers for sure.

 

[Landshark]

The takeaway from these calamities is to be better prepared for the next one. If it was necessary to park the car outside to allow the engine to run, what measures would need to be taken in order for you to be comfortable doing so? Remove a few trees? Build a carport?

What is your your source of home heating and how did it perform during the power outage? Eugene, OR intends to ban natural gas appliances in a great deal of new construction, including single family homes. Many homes in the PNW use heat pumps and supplemental electric heat strips in the air handler. The electrical demand for such a system is much greater than a natural gas furnace. It wouldn’t be difficult to power the blower and control board on a gas furnace. Without a 20K generator it would be a challenge to operate a heat pump system. So, these new homes will be without heat, hot water and cooking during a power outage.

We have a heat pump. We also have solar panels and battery backup. The heat pump will not operate off the batteries. The batteries power the well pump, holding tank pump, and a number of circuits in the house, including the refrigerator and chest freezer. We have an EPA approved wood burning fireplace insert and a propane heater in a bonus room. Some of the first steps we took after buying the house, when the solar was installed, was to replace the electric water heater with an on demand propane unit, and replace the electric clothes dryer with a propane unit in addition to switching to a HE washing machine. We removed the 120 gallon, above ground propane tank and installed a 500 gallon tank underground. We have a 3K generator that runs on propane or gas and a 2K generator that is gas only. We have a 48V25A battery charger in the event the solar panels are unable to sufficiently charge the batteries during the day. There are a number of portable propane tanks for the 3K generator. A 20K propane generator is still on the to do list. Maybe this fall. With the generator we could use heat or air conditioning while simultaneously charging the batteries. Then we could shut down the generator and run off batteries until heating, cooling or battery charging became necessary again.

There’s a push to go all electric, which is great until the power goes out. When that happens, the generators sell out in a few hours and the lines are a mile long at the gas station. That’s a party I’m happy to skip.

 

[Dan Albrich]

Agree Landshark RE preparedness. We haven't invested heavily but our Eugene home is dual-fuel. It originally had gas furnace and appliances. We added a heatpump. The thermostat is programmed to go to 35 degrees then use gas if colder. During a power outage, we can provide enough power to power the 110v furnace fan and run gas. We also have a gas fireplace that heats a pretty good swath of the house. The gas range top allows cooking without power.

I realize there's a strong anti-gas movement afoot. Provided I don't die of some odd lung problem, its nice to have access to gas.

I've thought about adding a natural gas generator. In the "old" days I just worried about basic warmth and ability to cook (which we already have) but with the forest fires in the summer, I don't have any easy remedy for many smoky days and heat. That would likely be the case to add a generator. We're plummed already for natural gas, so that might be the way. Of course LP would work even if natural gas was unavailable.

 

[Landshark]

I've thought about adding a natural gas generator.

Our Michigan house has a 10K natural gas generator. With gas heat that is sufficient. There have been outages for a week or more, almost always in winter. Being a rural, lakefront property, it doesn’t have the highest priority for getting back on line. It sure beats scrambling for a generator, gas cans and extensions cords in the middle of the night when it’s either raining or snowing. You won’t regret the decision.