Why I just sold my 2019 Niro EV

[Jim Matthews]

The motor noise first became apparent in September of 2021.
Had I driven more highway, less local road I might not have noticed.

I first reported it to the nearest EV certified KIA dealership in October of 2021, when it was diagnosed as a CVT noise, later changed to CV joint when the tech discovered the Niro EV isn't a CVT.

Winter tires off, the motor noise had increased over Winter.

New lead tech confirms problem per TSB #234 in March of this year, but must get into the KIA TECH LINE. August of this year before it's approved.

Last week the just the motor bracket arrives. (Per protocol)

I sold to an online buyer for $750 more than I had spent on this car, less taxes and insurance. The vehicle never failed to start, left me stranded or was at all less than satisfactory.

While all car brands are suffering slow parts delivery, and staff burnout - KIA corporate slow walked this repair. Attempts to reach KIA Techline directly met with a recorded notice "Due to unmanageable volume, we are no longer taking phone calls." This was a serious red flag.

I previously owned a vehicle that was part the Theta II recall and considered this a stalling tactic that I could no longer abide.

It should not take more than a year to repair a verified, known fault that has an internal bulletin to redress an unfortunately common issue.

It's not a warranty if you can't get parts or find anyone to install them.

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...g-ev-service-is-essentially-impossible.14688/

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

I don't understand why you had so much trouble getting servicing and others did not. Is it just your local dealer?

 

[Jim Matthews]

I don't understand why you had so much trouble getting servicing and others did not. Is it just your local dealer?

I believe it's because KIA has both an increase in reported failures (few of which are EVs) and a reduction in staff.

Those Niro EV owners with a successful repair history reported their troubles before C19 slowdowns and many of them were outside the US. I think KIA overwhelmed by Theta II engine problems and this is spilling over to other product lines.

https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and...r-kia-you-might-be-eligible-for-a-free-engine

 

[CR EV]

Interesting...Comparing my experience with Kia with my 6+ months with Rivian (R1T truck), I think there's something to be said for going with companies that are exclusively EV, or at least mostly. Kia, from the dealer on up, has to be focused primarily where the majority of their customers (and vulnerabilities) are...that is with ICE units. My Kia dealer has one tech who is the EV specialist. Have an issue, wait for him to be available. If I have a question with my Rivian, I can call or text with someone who really knows the vehicle. Not having the dealer network, they have put together a mobile service that serves those farther then 50 miles from a service center. They came out once to fix a sensor that was on the blink and will be out this week to check the torque on some screws. That's been in the news...7 trucks out of 16,000 in a batch have had a problem so they are checking them all either by people coming in to a center or by coming to the truck if you're not close to a center. So far, impressed with the service. Below is from my driveway...

 

[polyphonic]

EV motor noise can be so annoying. Oddly enough, I couldn’t stand the Niro I rented on the highway whereas in town it was tolerable. Sorry to hear about your issues, but I am glad you were able to sell the car.

 

[JasonG]

Keep listening to see if my 2019 Niro EV has this problem. So far I don't think so, knock on wood...

Might actually consider trading it in for a 2023 Niro EV as the styling and slightly more range are attractive. Currently seems like no Niro EVs in stock anywhere and waiting for 2023 models to come in. If I can get a really good price for my 2019, might be worth it.

 

[Jim Matthews]

Keep listening to see if my 2019 Niro EV has this problem. So far I don't think so, knock on wood...

If you're beyond 30,000 miles, I doubt you will have a problem. There's not much improvement between the model years.

It was good design, from the onset.

 

[JasonG]

If you're beyond 30,000 miles, I doubt you will have a problem. There's not much improvement between the model years.

It was good design, from the onset.

Totally agree. Due to the pandemic, I only have 13,215 miles on my car... Do you think I'm in the clear? I do love the car and it is pretty much perfect for me!

 

[Jim Matthews]

Totally agree. Due to the pandemic, I only have 13,215 miles on my car... Do you think I'm in the clear? I do love the car and it is pretty much perfect for me!

Hard to say. I don't want to raise doubts about *your* vehicle.

In my case, the car never showed an error code nor did it ever fail to start. The noise was loud enough that I noticed and the service tech confirmed it. If you don't hear anything below 35 mph - no worries.

 

[scooterjm]

Resurrecting this old thread. I have a 2019 Niro EV EX Premium that started making the dreaded tapping/ticking sound during low speeds, at 45,000+ miles on the odometer. I took it in to my local dealer along with a copy of the TSB ELE 234 document. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf

Local dealer ordered the parts, replaced the brackets, per the first steps on the TSB, under warranty and returned my vehicle to me with the notes "technician performed drive test and did not observe sound." The tapping (wheel of fortune) sound was still present after the bracket/mount repair.

I returned to the local dealer and let them know that the sound was still present. It took several rounds of test drives with two technicians saying "oh we don't hear it" and "those are normal sounds for an EV" and then the Service Manager saying "Kia Techline won't cover this if we can't document it". I presented them several recorded sound files (audio and video) from the cabin and insisted that they make the next appointment to go through the next time consuming steps on the TSB (removing the motor and reduction gear from the vehicle and inspecting/testing for noise).

It has taken them two weeks to perform the motor removal and noise test. Now the Service Manager is telling me "we still don't hear the noise" during the sound tests with the motor removed, and says that Kia Techline will "refuse" the warranty claim if the dealer can't "prove" the sound to them by submitting the sound files to them electronically. Service Manager wants me to come in person the dealer so I can see the motor and listen to the "lack of" sound coming from the motor during their testing.

From reading the TSB, at no point does it say that Kia has to explicitly approve any of the steps they are doing (in fact, nobody from Kia pre-approved anything from the first repair) just that the warranty claim from the dealer to Kia needs to include the TSB number for the applicable issue to cover labor and parts. In fact, I found this text on another older TSB for the Soul:
"It is not required to create a Tech Line case when performing a repair solely as described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign, or a Recall Campaign. The corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number must be noted in the warranty claim. If a repair described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign or Recall Campaign DOES involve any deviations from the TSB procedure, then a Tech Line case MUST be opened and the Tech Line case number must be noted in the warranty claim in addition to the corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number."

I also found this:
"The purpose of the Kia Technical Center (Techline) is to assist Kia dealers with Kia vehicle repair related technical concerns. When to Use the Technical Assistance Center • When all normal repair resources have been exhausted (see Techline Readiness for more information). • Vehicle is in for the second repair attempt or you have spent more than ½ hour diagnosing the vehicle without identifying the root cause of the concern. • To report quality concerns on Kia vehicles and to report any concerns during the first 150 days of a new model launch (EWR)"

I want my motor to be replaced under Kia warranty for this known issue with no more runaround. At this point, taking the vehicle to another dealer isn't an option (my motor is not in the vehicle, and the next closest Kia dealer is 2+ hours away)... I opened a case with Kia Customer Care Center during the first dealer runaround, to ensure that they would reimburse me for a rental car - I'm going to check in again with Customer Care to see if they can help. I don't think it should be this difficult to get the dealer to "believe me" that my motor is making sounds that it shouldn't be, for a known issue, that are covered by the TSB, to just do the work...

Any help or advice is appreciated...

 

[Jim Matthews]

Sorry to hear this is still going on. Pressure KIA corporate, a hire a lawyer to send a demand letter.

KIA/Hyundai/Genesis are following the medical insurers playbook to summarily deny claims - hoping the client will go away.

I did.

 

[KiwiME]

Any help or advice is appreciated...

I have to compliment you for your clearly-written post documenting your experience and research but notably without peppering it with distracting levels of emotion and judgment that we see so often when owners become frustrated with the dealer's warranty claim process.

Many owners of both the Niro and Kona have had trouble convincing their dealers that there is a problem but it seems in most cases the noise gets progressively worse until it can't be denied. Recording the sound and perhaps posting it on YouTube may help, as many have done.

If it's any consolation there is a hint of a rumour that H/K have very recently revised the motor and GRU (again) so you may actually benefit from a few weeks delay.

 

[Kia Guy]

I have to compliment you for your clearly-written post documenting your experience and research but notably without peppering it with distracting levels of emotion and judgment that we see so often when owners become frustrated with the dealer's warranty claim process.

Many owners of both the Niro and Kona have had trouble convincing their dealers that there is a problem but it seems in most cases the noise gets progressively worse until it can't be denied. Recording the sound and perhaps posting it on YouTube may help, as many have done.

If it's any consolation there is a hint of a rumour that H/K have very recently revised the motor and GRU (again) so you may actually benefit from a few weeks delay.

Where did you hear that rumour?

 

[Flora Burke]

Resurrecting this old thread. I have a 2019 Niro EV EX Premium that started making the dreaded tapping/ticking sound during low speeds, at 45,000+ miles on the odometer. I took it in to my local dealer along with a copy of the TSB ELE 234 document. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf

Local dealer ordered the parts, replaced the brackets, per the first steps on the TSB, under warranty and returned my vehicle to me with the notes "technician performed drive test and did not observe sound." The tapping (wheel of fortune) sound was still present after the bracket/mount repair.

I returned to the local dealer and let them know that the sound was still present. It took several rounds of test drives with two technicians saying "oh we don't hear it" and "those are normal sounds for an EV" and then the Service Manager saying "Kia Techline won't cover this if we can't document it". I presented them several recorded sound files (audio and video) from the cabin and insisted that they make the next appointment to go through the next time consuming steps on the TSB (removing the motor and reduction gear from the vehicle and inspecting/testing for noise).

It has taken them two weeks to perform the motor removal and noise test. Now the Service Manager is telling me "we still don't hear the noise" during the sound tests with the motor removed, and says that Kia Techline will "refuse" the warranty claim if the dealer can't "prove" the sound to them by submitting the sound files to them electronically. Service Manager wants me to come in person the dealer so I can see the motor and listen to the "lack of" sound coming from the motor during their testing.

From reading the TSB, at no point does it say that Kia has to explicitly approve any of the steps they are doing (in fact, nobody from Kia pre-approved anything from the first repair) just that the warranty claim from the dealer to Kia needs to include the TSB number for the applicable issue to cover labor and parts. In fact, I found this text on another older TSB for the Soul:
"It is not required to create a Tech Line case when performing a repair solely as described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign, or a Recall Campaign. The corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number must be noted in the warranty claim. If a repair described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign or Recall Campaign DOES involve any deviations from the TSB procedure, then a Tech Line case MUST be opened and the Tech Line case number must be noted in the warranty claim in addition to the corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number."

I also found this:
"The purpose of the Kia Technical Center (Techline) is to assist Kia dealers with Kia vehicle repair related technical concerns. When to Use the Technical Assistance Center • When all normal repair resources have been exhausted (see Techline Readiness for more information). • Vehicle is in for the second repair attempt or you have spent more than ½ hour diagnosing the vehicle without identifying the root cause of the concern. • To report quality concerns on Kia vehicles and to report any concerns during the first 150 days of a new model launch (EWR)"

I want my motor to be replaced under Kia warranty for this known issue with no more runaround. At this point, taking the vehicle to another dealer isn't an option (my motor is not in the vehicle, and the next closest Kia dealer is 2+ hours away)... I opened a case with Kia Customer Care Center during the first dealer runaround, to ensure that they would reimburse me for a rental car - I'm going to check in again with Customer Care to see if they can help. I don't think it should be this difficult to get the dealer to "believe me" that my motor is making sounds that it shouldn't be, for a known issue, that are covered by the TSB, to just do the work...

Any help or advice is appreciated...

I was just told by my dealer my Kia Niro 2019 has TSB ELE 234. However when explaining the problem they sounded like they were guessing. Ex warranty
co not cover engine mounts, they are not broken. KIa has new shiny ones that might make the noise go away. Have you heard any news of a recall?

 

[Flora Burke]

I was just told by my dealer my Kia Niro 2019 has TSB ELE 234. However when explaining the problem they sounded like they were guessing. Ex warranty
co not cover engine mounts, they are not broken. KIa has new shiny ones that might make the noise go away. Have you heard any news of a recall?

 

[JasonG]

FYI, I've been waiting a couple of months already for my dealership to get the new brackets in and install on my 2019 with 19k miles... Thought about selling but now that prices on the 2019 have dropped, I see no reason not to wait for Kia to repair it. I don't think I've heard of anyone being stranded by this issue and otherwise my car runs great and getting 4+ miles/kWh. Although fast charging is a little slow, it's not a show stopper for me as I don't do too many long trips.

 

[natesc0tt]

Resurrecting this old thread. I have a 2019 Niro EV EX Premium that started making the dreaded tapping/ticking sound during low speeds, at 45,000+ miles on the odometer. I took it in to my local dealer along with a copy of the TSB ELE 234 document. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf

Local dealer ordered the parts, replaced the brackets, per the first steps on the TSB, under warranty and returned my vehicle to me with the notes "technician performed drive test and did not observe sound." The tapping (wheel of fortune) sound was still present after the bracket/mount repair.

I returned to the local dealer and let them know that the sound was still present. It took several rounds of test drives with two technicians saying "oh we don't hear it" and "those are normal sounds for an EV" and then the Service Manager saying "Kia Techline won't cover this if we can't document it". I presented them several recorded sound files (audio and video) from the cabin and insisted that they make the next appointment to go through the next time consuming steps on the TSB (removing the motor and reduction gear from the vehicle and inspecting/testing for noise).

It has taken them two weeks to perform the motor removal and noise test. Now the Service Manager is telling me "we still don't hear the noise" during the sound tests with the motor removed, and says that Kia Techline will "refuse" the warranty claim if the dealer can't "prove" the sound to them by submitting the sound files to them electronically. Service Manager wants me to come in person the dealer so I can see the motor and listen to the "lack of" sound coming from the motor during their testing.

From reading the TSB, at no point does it say that Kia has to explicitly approve any of the steps they are doing (in fact, nobody from Kia pre-approved anything from the first repair) just that the warranty claim from the dealer to Kia needs to include the TSB number for the applicable issue to cover labor and parts. In fact, I found this text on another older TSB for the Soul:
"It is not required to create a Tech Line case when performing a repair solely as described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign, or a Recall Campaign. The corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number must be noted in the warranty claim. If a repair described in a Technical Service Bulletin (including Service Actions), a Service Campaign or Recall Campaign DOES involve any deviations from the TSB procedure, then a Tech Line case MUST be opened and the Tech Line case number must be noted in the warranty claim in addition to the corresponding TSB, SA, or SC number."

I also found this:
"The purpose of the Kia Technical Center (Techline) is to assist Kia dealers with Kia vehicle repair related technical concerns. When to Use the Technical Assistance Center • When all normal repair resources have been exhausted (see Techline Readiness for more information). • Vehicle is in for the second repair attempt or you have spent more than ½ hour diagnosing the vehicle without identifying the root cause of the concern. • To report quality concerns on Kia vehicles and to report any concerns during the first 150 days of a new model launch (EWR)"

I want my motor to be replaced under Kia warranty for this known issue with no more runaround. At this point, taking the vehicle to another dealer isn't an option (my motor is not in the vehicle, and the next closest Kia dealer is 2+ hours away)... I opened a case with Kia Customer Care Center during the first dealer runaround, to ensure that they would reimburse me for a rental car - I'm going to check in again with Customer Care to see if they can help. I don't think it should be this difficult to get the dealer to "believe me" that my motor is making sounds that it shouldn't be, for a known issue, that are covered by the TSB, to just do the work...

Any help or advice is appreciated...

Any status update on the repair?

What number to call to get Kia Corporate side in sync with local dealership on loaner/rental during service? The dealership wants me to pickup and drop off the vehicle between ordering parts and after replacing parts. It seems like they should hold onto it, put in the new parts when they arrive, test again, decide to go further if noise persists. Why would I take it home only to hear the issue is not fixed, then have to take it back again?

I'm starting this process now. Mount brackets on order. Here we go...

 

[scooterjm]

Any status update on the repair?

What number to call to get Kia Corporate side in sync with local dealership on loaner/rental during service? The dealership wants me to pickup and drop off the vehicle between ordering parts and after replacing parts. It seems like they should hold onto it, put in the new parts when they arrive, test again, decide to go further if noise persists. Why would I take it home only to hear the issue is not fixed, then have to take it back again?

I'm starting this process now. Mount brackets on order. Here we go...

I ended up contacting another dealer (2 hours away) in early October and talked to the service manager over the phone, explaining the saga I've been through with the local dealership and the TSB. He arranged for me to bring the car in for them to inspect, complete the TSB and replace the motor.

I brought the car in to the other dealership on October 18 and provided them the video and audio files, which they uploaded to Kia Techline. They provided me a rental car (paid directly by dealership) and the final part (E712 motor) was ordered, arrived the following Wednesday and it took them 1 1/2 days to install. The sound is gone!! and I received fantastic customer service from this other (older) dealership. My local dealership will never get our family's business again, service or sales.

As far as Kia corporate, call 1-800-333-4542 and see if you can get a representative there to help out - they should at least be able to create a case for you so that you can get the rental car reimbursed after the fact. Good luck.

 

[natesc0tt]

I ended up contacting another dealer (2 hours away) in early October and talked to the service manager over the phone, explaining the saga I've been through with the local dealership and the TSB. He arranged for me to bring the car in for them to inspect, complete the TSB and replace the motor.

I brought the car in to the other dealership on October 18 and provided them the video and audio files, which they uploaded to Kia Techline. They provided me a rental car (paid directly by dealership) and the final part (E712 motor) was ordered, arrived the following Wednesday and it took them 1 1/2 days to install. The sound is gone!! and I received fantastic customer service from this other (older) dealership. My local dealership will never get our family's business again, service or sales.

As far as Kia corporate, call 1-800-333-4542 and see if you can get a representative there to help out - they should at least be able to create a case for you so that you can get the rental car reimbursed after the fact. Good luck.

well that's promising that it went smooth after finding someone who is willing to work with you. They didn't through the flowchart on the TSB and start by replacing mounting brackets first before going further to the gearbox and motor? Do you know if your original motor was E710 or E711? I think it depends on whether it was early or later production line. If they're all compatible, I'm told the best way to avoid needing to have it done more than one time, is to get them to replace with the latest revision.

 

[scooterjm]

well that's promising that it went smooth after finding someone who is willing to work with you. They didn't through the flowchart on the TSB and start by replacing mounting brackets first before going further to the gearbox and motor? Do you know if your original motor was E710 or E711? I think it depends on whether it was early or later production line. If they're all compatible, I'm told the best way to avoid needing to have it done more than one time, is to get them to replace with the latest revision.

I had already been through all of the other steps in the TSB flowchart (new mounts/brackets in April, a new reduction gearbox in July after they finally took it apart and saw the reduction gear oil was glittery and dark). My original motor was an E710.