Traction Motor replacement

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Rickker

Rickker

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Hello, I know this subject has been discussed a lot already, but I have a specific question.

Here's the story. About a month or two ago, I started to hear a "knocking" sound whenever I lifted my foot off the accelerator and regeneration braking was in effect. This only happens under regeneration, under power all is quiet. When I set Regen to zero, there is no noise until the brake pedal is applied, which also switches on Regen mode, I believe. The frequency of the knocking is prorportional to vehicle speed. Over time, it seemed that the knocking noise was getting louder, so I made an appointment with my dealer.

The result was that the Service Rep told me that the Traction Motor needed to be replaced and they had ordered one. I was surprised, since the motor is very quiet under power or constant load and the noise is only heard during regenerative braking. Does the traction motor also act as a generator? In reading posts I did not see any where the knocking noise was occurring only in regeneration mode. Maybe I missed something.

Anyway, I am wondering if there could be an issue with the gearbox rather than the traction motor? I did not want to challenge the dealer's diagnosis.

Anyway#2, just got a call from the dealer, and they will be replacing the traction motor next week. They also recommended a brake service (2019 Ultimate, 26,000 km)

Any comments?
 
Mine was the Reduction Gear ... There is a long thread of that issue that's going on - due to build up of metal shavings in the gear. It started with a dull thump-thump-thump that was noticeable to me - at acceleration - but the shop couldn't hear. It got louder to the point they could finally diagnose it & replace it. So just a thought - if the traction motor replacement doesn't fix it, have them take a look into the Reduction Gear. good luck !
 
Rickker said:
Hello, I know this subject has been discussed a lot already, but I have a specific question.

Here's the story. About a month or two ago, I started to hear a "knocking" sound whenever I lifted my foot off the accelerator and regeneration braking was in effect. This only happens under regeneration, under power all is quiet. When I set Regen to zero, there is no noise until the brake pedal is applied, which also switches on Regen mode, I believe. The frequency of the knocking is prorportional to vehicle speed. Over time, it seemed that the knocking noise was getting louder, so I made an appointment with my dealer.

The result was that the Service Rep told me that the Traction Motor needed to be replaced and they had ordered one. I was surprised, since the motor is very quiet under power or constant load and the noise is only heard during regenerative braking. Does the traction motor also act as a generator? In reading posts I did not see any where the knocking noise was occurring only in regeneration mode. Maybe I missed something.

Anyway, I am wondering if there could be an issue with the gearbox rather than the traction motor? I did not want to challenge the dealer's diagnosis.

Anyway#2, just got a call from the dealer, and they will be replacing the traction motor next week. They also recommended a brake service (2019 Ultimate, 26,000 km)

Any comments?
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There's now a long history of parts replacement due to drivetrain noise. Hyundai started out replacing parts progressively, hoping to eliminate the noise. Motor then gearbox or gearbox then motor - and officially this is STILL the procedure - however, anecdotally, the dealers have abandoned this and are just going ahead with a full drivetrain replacement (as in my case). It's probably fair to say that they are doing this because the sequential approach was long, incredibly labour intensive and ultimately not worth it. The reason? It's debatable but it appears they don't really know the exact cause of the noise and are hoping that replacement will eliminate the unknown cause in most cases. Let's not forget that, despite appearances in places like these owner forums where faults are highlighted and discussed ad nauseum, the vast majority of the Kona drivetrains are just fine. It simply appears to be the luck of the draw and Hyundai is playing the odds.

Edit. I think you should challenge your dealers' approach if only because this forum probably gives you a more global understanding of the issue, and solutions, than many dealers would have. It could save you both some time.
 
Rickker said:
... I did not want to challenge the dealer's diagnosis....
Click to expand...
They may or may not be aware of the TSB on this subject. Ideally they replace the gearbox at the same time to save you having to return, as @Wildeyed mentions.
Tim94549 said:
...due to build up of metal shavings in the gear....
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we don't have any evidence yet that this is the root cause of the tapping, despite that it certainly could be.
 
Wildeyed said:
There's now a long history of parts replacement due to drivetrain noise. Hyundai started out replacing parts progressively, hoping to eliminate the noise. Motor then gearbox or gearbox then motor - and officially this is STILL the procedure - however, anecdotally, the dealers have abandoned this and are just going ahead with a full drivetrain replacement (as in my case). It's probably fair to say that they are doing this because the sequential approach was long, incredibly labour intensive and ultimately not worth it. The reason? It's debatable but it appears they don't really know the exact cause of the noise and are hoping that replacement will eliminate the unknown cause in most cases. Let's not forget that, despite appearances in places like these owner forums where faults are highlighted and discussed ad nauseum, the vast majority of the Kona drivetrains are just fine. It simply appears to be the luck of the draw and Hyundai is playing the odds.

Edit. I think you should challenge your dealers' approach if only because this forum probably gives you a more global understanding of the issue, and solutions, than many dealers would have. It could save you both some time.
Click to expand...
Wildeyed said:
There's now a long history of parts replacement due to drivetrain noise. Hyundai started out replacing parts progressively, hoping to eliminate the noise. Motor then gearbox or gearbox then motor - and officially this is STILL the procedure - however, anecdotally, the dealers have abandoned this and are just going ahead with a full drivetrain replacement (as in my case). It's probably fair to say that they are doing this because the sequential approach was long, incredibly labour intensive and ultimately not worth it. The reason? It's debatable but it appears they don't really know the exact cause of the noise and are hoping that replacement will eliminate the unknown cause in most cases. Let's not forget that, despite appearances in places like these owner forums where faults are highlighted and discussed ad nauseum, the vast majority of the Kona drivetrains are just fine. It simply appears to be the luck of the draw and Hyundai is playing the odds.

Edit. I think you should challenge your dealers' approach if only because this forum probably gives you a more global understanding of the issue, and solutions, than many dealers would have. It could save you both some time.
Click to expand...



Yes, a lot of reports on this forum about motor or drivetrain noise. But in my case, the noise occurs ONLY when regeneration is occurring. It happens in all levels of regeneration EXCEPT when I pull up on the left paddle to come to a stop. As soon as I pull up on the paddle, the noise goes away. Weird. That's why I thought that this noise was coming from another source? I am not familiar with how the regeneration works in the Kona. Is there a separate DC generator that comes into effect whenever the accelerator is lifted, or does the traction motor operate as a generator as well? Or, is there something about the gearbox when the load is in the opposite direction as during regeneration? There is absolutely no noise under power, even full power, or when cruising under constant load, even very light load. Anyway, the traction motor is being replaced next week, and I will report back if that has eliminated the noise or not.

The traction motor is being replaced next week, and I will report back after that.
 
Rickker said:
Yes, a lot of reports on this forum about motor or drivetrain noise. But in my case, the noise occurs ONLY when regeneration is occurring. It happens in all levels of regeneration EXCEPT when I pull up on the left paddle to come to a stop. As soon as I pull up on the paddle, the noise goes away. Weird. That's why I thought that this noise was coming from another source? I am not familiar with how the regeneration works in the Kona. Is there a separate DC generator that comes into effect whenever the accelerator is lifted, or does the traction motor operate as a generator as well? Or, is there something about the gearbox when the load is in the opposite direction as during regeneration? There is absolutely no noise under power, even full power, or when cruising under constant load, even very light load. Anyway, the traction motor is being replaced next week, and I will report back if that has eliminated the noise or not.

The traction motor is being replaced next week, and I will report back after that.
Click to expand...
Good luck with the swap. I hope it does the trick for you.

I believe the motor does both jobs, driving and regenerating. With regard to the noise: mine started out being noisy under regeneration but progressed over time to be noisy all the time - except when coasting in neutral, when it was always quiet. It's a puzzle to be sure. Keep us updated. Fingers crossed for you.
 
Wildeyed said:
Good luck with the swap. I hope it does the trick for you.

I believe the motor does both jobs, driving and regenerating. With regard to the noise: mine started out being noisy under regeneration but progressed over time to be noisy all the time - except when coasting in neutral, when it was always quiet. It's a puzzle to be sure. Keep us updated. Fingers crossed for you.
Click to expand...


Update: Had the Kona in today for what I thought would be replacing the traction motor. This did not happen. Instead the work order says "Installed traction motor kit as per bulletin, noise still present, will need to order traction motor - Warranty". Well, who knew that there was a traction motor kit? So now I am waiting for a complete replacement traction motor, and not very confident that this is the answer, based on posts I have read on this forum. I suggested to the service rep that they also order a complete reduction gearbox, to have on hand if needed, but I doubt very much that they will do this. So it looks like we will be going through the process, one step at a time. Fortunately, the noise is not very loud, noticeable but not intrusive, but it will be a nuisance to keep bringing the Kona in for service until this gets resolved. While this issue is common to this forum, I believe it is new to my dealer and who has sold only a few Konas and mine is the first case to come up. Patience.... Will update when there is something to report.
 
Rickker said:
Update: Had the Kona in today for what I thought would be replacing the traction motor. This did not happen. Instead the work order says "Installed traction motor kit as per bulletin, noise still present, will need to order traction motor - Warranty". Well, who knew that there was a traction motor kit? So now I am waiting for a complete replacement traction motor, and not very confident that this is the answer, based on posts I have read on this forum. I suggested to the service rep that they also order a complete reduction gearbox, to have on hand if needed, but I doubt very much that they will do this. So it looks like we will be going through the process, one step at a time. Fortunately, the noise is not very loud, noticeable but not intrusive, but it will be a nuisance to keep bringing the Kona in for service until this gets resolved. While this issue is common to this forum, I believe it is new to my dealer and who has sold only a few Konas and mine is the first case to come up. Patience.... Will update when there is something to report.
Click to expand...
Step 1 of three possible completed. (Motor /Roll Mount Bracket and Bolt Kit ) Here is a link for the TSB, step 1 is up to page 10
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211676-0001.pdf
 
Rickker said:
Update: Had the Kona in today for what I thought would be replacing the traction motor. This did not happen. Instead the work order says "Installed traction motor kit as per bulletin, noise still present, will need to order traction motor - Warranty". Well, who knew that there was a traction motor kit? So now I am waiting for a complete replacement traction motor, and not very confident that this is the answer, based on posts I have read on this forum. I suggested to the service rep that they also order a complete reduction gearbox, to have on hand if needed, but I doubt very much that they will do this. So it looks like we will be going through the process, one step at a time. Fortunately, the noise is not very loud, noticeable but not intrusive, but it will be a nuisance to keep bringing the Kona in for service until this gets resolved. While this issue is common to this forum, I believe it is new to my dealer and who has sold only a few Konas and mine is the first case to come up. Patience.... Will update when there is something to report.
Click to expand...
This is unfortunate. If you continue to encounter difficulties I would recommend changing dealerships for this service. I did and it transformed my experience. I moved from Belleville Hyundai (Ontario) to Lauria Hyundai in Port Hope. They did my (complete) drivetrain swap and it was a dream and they have done other swaps too. Experience made all the difference.. It might be worth a 2 hour drive for you. Just a suggestion should you encounter continued inconvenience.
 
electriceddy said:
Step 1 of three possible completed. (Motor /Roll Mount Bracket and Bolt Kit ) Here is a link for the TSB, step 1 is up to page 10
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10211676-0001.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for sending along the pdf file. Yesterday, the dealership replaced the traction motor. All appears to be well, the rumble noise is no more.
Now, in reading the TSB and the fact that the Kona was in the shop all day, clearly there is some serious labour involved. Of course this was all covered under warranty, but I am wondering if anyone knows what would have been the amount I would have paid if this had not been covered under warranty? I am asking because this happened at only 26,500 km, and may this problem occur again in the future with the replacement traction motor?
 
How long is your drivetrain warranty in Canada?

Add about 9 hours of labor to these costs below:

upload_2022-9-14_8-45-38.webp
upload_2022-9-14_8-46-55.webp
 
Wildeyed said:
View attachment 18304
Are you sure about this? The reason I ask is that I have a Canadian 2019 too and my warranty is longer.
Click to expand...
The "powertrain" warranty is 60 months or 100,000kms as listed in my 2021 manual. But the parts that are covered are engine and fossil burning equipment such as oil pump, flywheel, oil pan gaskets and seals, Transaxle parts are also fossil related: constant velocity joints, torque converter etc (also included the drive axles).
Notation at the bottom says "refer to HYBRID SYSTEM WARRANTY for HEV Auto Transmission coverage"
which consists of (in the EV section) Motor, Inverter unit, VCM, Reduction gear, DC/DC converter, onboard charger, trickle cable charger, in cable control box, high voltage battery for a duration of 96 months or 160,000 kms.
So the way I read it, the drive axles are 60 months or 100,000km, but the rest is 96 months or 160,000 kms
What does surprise me is the coverage of the trickle charger cable and in cable control box(granny charger as sometimes referred to) for that same duration.:)
 
Wildeyed said:
View attachment 18304
Are you sure about this? The reason I ask is that I have a Canadian 2019 too and my warranty is longer.
Click to expand...


Wildeyed, you are correct. I went to the Hyundai Canada website, navigated to the Warranty section, entered my VIN, and it shows that all models are covered for 5 years/100,000 km but the EV components are covered for 96 months/160,000 km. Read all about it:

https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/owners-section/warranty-owners?VIN=KM8K33AG7KU047045

This makes me feel a lot better about exercising the buyout option at the end of my 3-year lease, which comes up in July 2023.
 
I'm currently having my traction motor replaced (2019 SEL, with 57,000mi).
I've noticed the clicking noise since about 10 or 20,000 miles, and have brought it up occasionally when in for service. First couple times I was told they couldn't reproduce the problem, but they'd make a note. Last year they said they heard it, and they replaced a CV axle (after which I could still hear the motor ticking sound). Then this winter I went up specifically to address this with more conviction, as we were approaching 60k miles, where at least some warranty coverages end.

Last month (1st visit of this cycle), they said they couldn't hear it, but they seemed much more engaged with fixing it (and following the TSB that I pointed them to). They ordered the new bolt and brackets, and scheduled me to come back in 2 weeks. Last week, I dropped it off again, this time for 36 hours, and they gave me a loaner. They did the 6 hour job of remounting the motor (or whatever TSB step 1 is) and when I went back in I could immediately hear the clicking, so I took the shop foreman for a ride, and he could hear what I was talking about. He ordered a new traction motor, and they're keeping the car for 2 weeks until that comes in. (We still have the loaner)

They've told me that another Kona has been going through this same list of steps in their shop, and I suspect that's what has made them so much more accommodating this time around. I don't envy the owner who had to be the pioneer on this issue at Quirk Hyundai (or any dealership). It's always easier to be the second guy!

Nate
 
NRH said:
I'm currently having my traction motor replaced (2019 SEL, with 57,000mi).
I've noticed the clicking noise since about 10 or 20,000 miles, and have brought it up occasionally when in for service. First couple times I was told they couldn't reproduce the problem, but they'd make a note. Last year they said they heard it, and they replaced a CV axle (after which I could still hear the motor ticking sound). Then this winter I went up specifically to address this with more conviction, as we were approaching 60k miles, where at least some warranty coverages end.

Last month (1st visit of this cycle), they said they couldn't hear it, but they seemed much more engaged with fixing it (and following the TSB that I pointed them to). They ordered the new bolt and brackets, and scheduled me to come back in 2 weeks. Last week, I dropped it off again, this time for 36 hours, and they gave me a loaner. They did the 6 hour job of remounting the motor (or whatever TSB step 1 is) and when I went back in I could immediately hear the clicking, so I took the shop foreman for a ride, and he could hear what I was talking about. He ordered a new traction motor, and they're keeping the car for 2 weeks until that comes in. (We still have the loaner)

They've told me that another Kona has been going through this same list of steps in their shop, and I suspect that's what has made them so much more accommodating this time around. I don't envy the owner who had to be the pioneer on this issue at Quirk Hyundai (or any dealership). It's always easier to be the second guy!

Nate
Click to expand...
Man, it's unfortunate they weren't more proactive 40,000 miles ago. Sheesh!
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
 
This illustrates the problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis EVs.

Each step in the TSB - FOR A KNOWN DESIGN FLAW - takes 3 months. For my bargain Niro EV this was deeply irritating.

For a much more expensive e-GMP vehicle it's a deal breaker. 6 months for a front bumper while paying finance charges? No thanks.

The Hyundai "family" of vehicles has a warranty that is little more than a marketing gimmick.

Park a thousand blown Theta II motors in front of any work order and this backlog was inevitable.

Great little cars-Terrible manufacturing suport (low or no parts)-Horrible dealership experience = another Tesla buyer.
 
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