Will my SE still quality for tax credit

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polyphonic said:
I sincerely appreciate that my local MINI dealer put this together (they have been fantastic the whole way through), but what a shame that MINI USA hasn't put a lawyer on this. I would understand if it doesn't work out in the end, but I don't understand the lack of effort. Ridiculous!
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The level of effort from my MINI dealer has been exactly 0.00. The fact that they didn’t communicate at all, let alone lift a single finger to help me (and others) make the best case in support of the tax credit certainly doesn’t really motivate to spend $7500 more than I planned to, to reward them with my business.
 
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gosjsgdi said:
The level of effort from my MINI dealer has been exactly 0.00. The fact that they didn’t communicate at all, let alone lift a single finger to help me (and others) make the best case in support of the tax credit certainly doesn’t really motivate to spend $7500 more than I planned to, to reward them with my business.
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Did you end up giving my dealer a try?
 
Aquavir said:
Maybe since MINI requires all buyers to do the $250 deposit online as the first step and seems to expect their dealers to sell at MSRP they feel that they have given a fixed price (I remember reading one of the posts early in this thread suggesting that "binding" meant that the price was fixed) on the car itself (not including all the dealer add ons). Just speculating, because if they don't think their current setup will suffice and/or they haven't thought this through, it is shockingly shortsighted.
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Bottom line: How many sales will they lose?
 
fishbert said:
It has been announced that Biden will sign the Inflation Reduction Act tomorrow (8/16). So, the tax credit for EVs assembled outside North America will end Wednesday (8/17).
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If Biden signs the bill today as planned, then yesterday (Monday the 15th) was the last day you could still enter into a "written binding contract to purchase".
 
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fishbert said:
Did you end up giving my dealer a try?
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You know, I seriously thought about it, but I didn’t. And I do sincerely thank you for everything that you shared on this thread.

Obviously, we’re all trying to make the best decisions we can based on speculation regarding what the IRS will say amounts to a binding contract. At the end of this thought exercise, to me, the lack of a non-refundable deposit meant that the transaction structure used by your dealer wasn’t sufficiently different from the structure of my dealer to give me enough comfort that it was binding. [Emphasis on every instance in which I used the word “me” in that sentence.] While I shared my insane lunatic legal analysis about “consideration” earlier in this thread, I fully concede that it may not be the right way to be thinking about this issue and I’m certainly not trying to come within a country mile of talking anyone in/out of the decision that they plan to make, since it’s their $7500 at stake.

I can’t say that I know right now what I’m going to do when my SE is finally delivered but, FOR ME, attempting to claim the tax credit and having the IRS determine that it was inappropriate is a worse outcome than buying the SE without the benefit of the tax credit, or backing out of the deal altogether.
 
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CuriousGeorge said:
No question that any cars already ordered will likely find ready buyers.

OTOH, based on the results of the poll, at least in the US future sales may very well drop dramatically.
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If the 2024 MINI Cooper SE gets to 60 in under 6 seconds, goes 250 EPA miles between charges, and weighs less than 3,000 lbs, I think they'll find buyers willing to pay a rebateless $40K. However, skeptical me will be surprised if it makes any of those numbers, making it a tough sell in the US.
 
DJCoopster said:
My sales manager said she had 21 cars in this situation they were working through. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that many, and the cars will sell one way or another.
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That’s the same number at the dealership I’m ordering through. Are the sales manager’s initials ‘BH’?
 
CuriousGeorge said:
If Biden signs the bill today as planned, then yesterday (Monday the 15th) was the last day you could still enter into a "written binding contract to purchase".
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Yep. The assembly location requirement starts tomorrow (8/17), and the transition rule window closed yesterday (8/15). So, all you can do today to qualify for the tax credit with a foreign-assembled EV is buy.

Side note: If you buy today, the vehicle doesn’t need to be placed in service today. The effective date of the assembly restriction specifically says “sold”, not “placed in service” like most of the rest of the language.
 
insightman said:
If the 2024 MINI Cooper SE gets to 60 in under 6 seconds, goes 250 EPA miles between charges, and weighs less than 3,000 lbs, I think they'll find buyers willing to pay a rebateless $40K. However, skeptical me will be surprised if it makes any of those numbers, making it a tough sell in the US.
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Agreed. It will be very challenging for the China made MINI SE to be able to improve any of the aspects we find important: quickness, efficiency, range, handling, lightness, smallness, reliability, etc. If they are able to make any improvements at all they will be few and marginal.


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insightman said:
If the 2024 MINI Cooper SE gets to 60 in under 6 seconds, goes 250 EPA miles between charges, and weighs less than 3,000 lbs, I think they'll find buyers willing to pay a rebateless $40K. However, skeptical me will be surprised if it makes any of those numbers, making it a tough sell in the US.
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I tend to agree. I wonder if the forthcoming Aceman has a better chance, although there's no firm indication it'll be coming to the US market.
 
gosjsgdi said:
I can’t say that I know right now what I’m going to do when my SE is finally delivered but, FOR ME, attempting to claim the tax credit and having the IRS determine that it was inappropriate is a worse outcome than buying the SE without the benefit of the tax credit, or backing out of the deal altogether.
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Unless you work for the IRS where they can suspend you if there is an error of a nickel on your tax return, what is the worst that can happen, penalties? Even if you do work for the IRS, if you can show a reasonable basis as outlined in the penalty section of the code shouldn't the penalties be abated, and all you would owe is interest?
 
polyphonic said:
IRS Guidance (released today): https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in-electric-vehicle-credit-irc-30-and-irc-30d
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A non-refundable deposit of 5% (or down payment) of the total contract price or more??

What Is a Written Binding Contract?
In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount (for example, by use of a liquidated damages provision or the forfeiture of a deposit). While the enforceability of a contract under State law is a facts-and-circumstances determination to be made under relevant State law, if a customer has made a significant non-refundable deposit or down payment, it is an indication of a binding contract. For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract. A contract is binding even if subject to a condition, as long as the condition is not within the control of either party. A contract will continue to be binding if the parties make insubstantial changes in its terms and conditions.
 
insightman said:
If the 2024 MINI Cooper SE gets to 60 in under 6 seconds, goes 250 EPA miles between charges, and weighs less than 3,000 lbs, I think they'll find buyers willing to pay a rebateless $40K. However, skeptical me will be surprised if it makes any of those numbers, making it a tough sell in the US.
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2024 mini SE never get to 250 miles range if they not change chemistry on those HV batteries bc is no room in small car to accommodate today’s technology batteries.Austrian company put in Bmw I 3 in 2019 solid state batteries and a range was 435 miles Cost $ 60000.I 3 weight with carbon fiber body was 2600 lbs/ SE today 3175 lbs .and I 3 was bigger car slightly 2/3/6 “ The biggest achievement from Bmw I 3 was 160 miles range with 42.2 KWh or 120 Ah battery .SE carry 32.6 KWh / 94 Ah battery and 114 miles range .SE accommodate batteries into tunnel of existing ACE car in T shape but as they go with rectangle they have to raise a sits / roof line or a car will be for small person.As much as I love my SE in todays setting in my opinion is not much future for iconic car from Oxford.I 3 with revolutionary design last only8 years and SE going to expire faster than that in my opinion .Base I 3 was $45000 SE base $30000 that’s why BMW try to keep SE alive in this year they bumped price $5000 anyway without improving a range just cutting down extra equipment.
 
teslarati97 said:
A non-refundable deposit of 5% (or down payment) of the total contract price or more??

What Is a Written Binding Contract?
In general, a written contract is binding if it is enforceable under State law and does not limit damages to a specified amount (for example, by use of a liquidated damages provision or the forfeiture of a deposit). While the enforceability of a contract under State law is a facts-and-circumstances determination to be made under relevant State law, if a customer has made a significant non-refundable deposit or down payment, it is an indication of a binding contract. For tax purposes in general, a contract provision that limits damages to an amount equal to at least 5 percent of the total contract price is not treated as limiting damages to a specified amount. For example, if a customer has made a non-refundable deposit or down payment of 5 percent of the total contract price, it is an indication of a binding contract. A contract is binding even if subject to a condition, as long as the condition is not within the control of either party. A contract will continue to be binding if the parties make insubstantial changes in its terms and conditions.
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That's nice of them to put out this guidance the day after the transition rule window.

It looks like the IRS is not defining what a written binding contract to purchase is in a legal sense, but rather what will easily convince them there is one (they qualify their guidance with "in general" pretty much everywhere). The gray area between may still be in accordance with the law, but one might have to argue with them about it.

That said, I did just call my dealer and have them up my deposit to clear the 5% threshold the IRS specifically calls out. The transition rule window may no longer be open, but this guidance was not presented in a timely manner, and I'm doing everything within my power to adhere to their guidance as soon as it was made available to clearly show what has been true all along... that both parties (me and the dealer) consider our agreement to be a written binding contract to purchase.
 
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The whole thing was a mess. There was essentially no transition period for vehicles made outside of North America, and MINI USA couldn't even be bothered to offer us a one-page binding contract. I'm really unhappy with MINI because the credit is 20-25% of the price of the vehicle, and it's frankly a fair deal given the low range.
 
I feel good about my PO then. It clearly states that I have to buy the car unless I’m seeking financing from them and it falls through, which I’m not doing.
 
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