Will my SE still quality for tax credit

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Aquavir said:
Does the language on a purchase order vary by state? The ones here in CT seem pretty binding except under certain circumstances, at least as far as the fine print is concerned.
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No PO for me - just paid the reservation fee and signed a print out of the configuration. I don't know if that's because of how my dealer operates, where I live, or the fact that no financing is involved.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
No PO for me - just paid the reservation fee and signed a print out of the configuration. I don't know if that's because of how my dealer operates, where I live, or the fact that no financing is involved.
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I did that for my SE as well. I believe signing the configuration is a way to ensure it's got all the correct options, as well as give the dealer some proof that a customer ordered it (avoiding a "Fargo" movie scenario).
 
I think the spirit of the law is really being able to demonstrate that the taxpayer originally qualified for the old $7,500 tax credit.

Europe is probably going to take it up with the World Trade Organization (18+ months) or start a retaliatory trade war. The only US company they could significantly piss off would be Boeing.
 
The dealer I'm working with on my SE order has their own in-house "custom special build authorization" document that buyers sign & date, mostly to make sure everyone is on the same page when it comes to deposits, the potential for build changes due to availability issues, when builds can be modified vs when they're locked down, etc.

I ran this document by a lawyer friend of mine, who said it looked like a written binding contract to him ... but he's immigration law, not tax law. Then, this morning, the dealer reached out to say they've talked with their lawyer, who agreed that their "custom special build authorization" document would probably constitute a written binding contract to purchase... but to be more safe, he suggested they draw up buyer's order documents with as much information about the vehicle in question as is known to date, and having customers sign/date that as well. So, that's what they're in the process of doing today.

I had been trying to find my own tax attorney to consult with, but feel comfortable enough now that I've stopped looking.
 
fishbert said:
The dealer I'm working with on my SE order has their own in-house "custom special build authorization" document that buyers sign & date, mostly to make sure everyone is on the same page when it comes to deposits, the potential for build changes due to availability issues, when builds can be modified vs when they're locked down, etc.

I ran this document by a lawyer friend of mine, who said it looked like a written binding contract to him ... but he's immigration law, not tax law. Then, this morning, the dealer reached out to say they've talked with their lawyer, who agreed that their "custom special build authorization" document would probably constitute a written binding contract to purchase... but to be more safe, he suggested they draw up buyer's order documents with as much information about the vehicle in question as is known to date, and having customers sign/date that as well. So, that's what they're in the process of doing today.

I had been trying to find my own tax attorney to consult with, but feel comfortable enough now that I've stopped looking.
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May I ask who your dealer is? (For a better shot at the tax credit, I may be willing to order from a few states away and go on a road trip to retrieve my SE! )
 
fishbert said:
The dealer I'm working with on my SE order has their own in-house "custom special build authorization" document that buyers sign & date, mostly to make sure everyone is on the same page when it comes to deposits, the potential for build changes due to availability issues, when builds can be modified vs when they're locked down, etc.

I ran this document by a lawyer friend of mine, who said it looked like a written binding contract to him ... but he's immigration law, not tax law. Then, this morning, the dealer reached out to say they've talked with their lawyer, who agreed that their "custom special build authorization" document would probably constitute a written binding contract to purchase... but to be more safe, he suggested they draw up buyer's order documents with as much information about the vehicle in question as is known to date, and having customers sign/date that as well. So, that's what they're in the process of doing today.

I had been trying to find my own tax attorney to consult with, but feel comfortable enough now that I've stopped looking.
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Would you be comfortable posting or messaging a redacted version of that doc?

My dealer sent over a signed purchase order, but they were hesitant to send anything beyond that, understandably so. I am wondering if your dealer’s doc could be used as a template.
 
polyphonic said:
Would you be comfortable posting or messaging a redacted version of that doc?

My dealer sent over a signed purchase order, but they were hesitant to send anything beyond that, understandably so. I am wondering if your dealer’s doc could be used as a template.
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I don't know if dealerships get protective over this sort of stuff, or if it's all one big happy MINI family, so I've been a bit conservative with the redactions and I'll probably take it down a day or two after the bill is signed.
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Thanks @fishbert !

It seems like the key points in your [special order authorization] are "I agree to purchase" and "nonrefundable deposit."

Just came across a copy that Nissan is sending out.
Nissan has a $500 deposit (refundable, though the contract does not state this) and uses the term "binding contract" since that's the magic word in the bill. Still reading a lot of disagreement as to what constitutes a binding contract in this context.
 
polyphonic said:
Thanks @fishbert !

It seems like the key points in your [special order authorization] are "I agree to purchase" and "nonrefundable deposit."

Just came across a copy that Nissan is sending out.
Nissan has a $500 deposit (refundable, though the contract does not state this) and uses the term "binding contract" since that's the magic word in the bill. Still reading a lot of disagreement as to what constitutes a binding contract in this context.
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Yeah, I'm agreeing to purchase, and they're agreeing to provide.

The 'special order authorization' document says the deposit becomes non-refundable in the future (when the vehicle goes into production)... but I'm not convinced a non-refundable deposit is required for an agreement to be binding (legally enforceable) anyway. Lots of internet randos are assuming it is, but the actual guidance on legal contracts I'm finding seems to disagree.

That said, I have asked my dealer if they could make my $250 non-refundable just in case (they've agreed over the phone and will be sending updated paperwork this weekend – the buyer's order they're having customers sign has a special section for deposit refund-ability), but I'm not getting heartburn over it.

Examples of "the actual guidance on legal contracts I'm finding":
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contract
https://cciaor.com/news/legal-hotline-we-have-a-signed-offer-but-no-deposit-what-now
https://www.floridarealtors.org/new...6/does-deposit-acceptance-turn-offer-contract
https://www.cabr.org/earnest-money/
https://www.kcrealestatelawyer.com/2022/01/08/is-a-contract-valid-if-no-earnest-monety-is-exchanged/
https://www.texasrealestate.com/mem...en-buyer-doesnt-pay-earnest-money-option-fee/
... a lot of these talk about real estate deals, but I would assume the guidance still applies.
 
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FWIW, I spoke to two sales managers at MINI dealerships today (one in-state, one out-of-state). Neither was willing to commit to anything, citing state laws.
 
I’m feeling optimistic. My purchase order agreement for a order placed about a week ago states the contract is non-binding if they arrange financing.

So if I come in with financing from my credit union I’ll be bound and qualify.
 
For vehicles delivered after the enactment but before Jan 1, 2023 you should be fine.

The Act also provides IRS with $80.47 billion in funding with $45.6 billion going to IRS tax enforcement division.
 
gosjsgdi said:
In light of the much-discussed “Transition Rule” and the complete ambiguity of what constitutes a written, binding contract, what makes you say this?
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(l) Transition Rule.--Solely for purposes of the application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that--
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act,
such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary's delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

I wish people would actually read the entire transition rule first before getting their knickers in a knot over written law and the spirit of the law. If you can demonstrate that during 2022 you ordered your MINI before the date of enactment, took delivery in 2022 but after date of enactment you can make the election (TBD? maybe an updated plug-in form) for the old credit to apply.
 
teslarati97 said:
(l) Transition Rule.--Solely for purposes of the application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that--
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act,
such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary's delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

I wish people would actually read the entire transition rule first before getting their knickers in a knot over written law and the spirit of the law. If you can demonstrate that during 2022 you ordered your MINI before the date of enactment, took delivery in 2022 but after date of enactment you can make the election (TBD? maybe an updated plug-in form) for the old credit to apply.
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I wish people would read the whole thread before responding. Most posts here are discussing the definition of “binding contact.” The IRS might interpret the law how you want…or not.
 
teslarati97 said:
I wish people would actually read the entire transition rule first before getting their knickers in a knot over written law and the spirit of the law. If you can demonstrate that during 2022 you ordered your MINI before the date of enactment, took delivery in 2022 but after date of enactment you can make the election (TBD? maybe an updated plug-in form) for the old credit to apply.
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I was a little confused by your comment as well because the transition rule does not require taking delivery before the end of the year. So, it wasn't entirely clear that's what you were referring to.

On initial reading, I thought you were just unaware of the assembly location requirement going into effect the day after enactment. But then I remembered you posted a comment earlier specifically citing that provision, so... ‍¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Aquavir said:
I wish people would read the whole thread before responding. Most posts here are discussing the definition of “binding contact.” The IRS might interpret the law how you want…or not.
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Isn't that exactly the point??

I'll make a deal with you: I will buy the car I have reserved when it arrives and claim the tax credit, then if I'm audited and that credit is disallowed, you'll cover the $7500 plus any penalties.

ETA: I'm confused as to whose point was which, so apologies if I responded to the wrong person.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Isn't that exactly the point??

I'll make a deal with you: I will buy the car I have reserved when it arrives and claim the tax credit, then if I'm audited and that credit is disallowed, you'll cover the $7500 plus any penalties.

ETA: I'm confused as to whose point was which, so apologies if I responded to the wrong person.
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@teslarati97 is indicating that the law clearly states that if you ordered a car this year prior to enactment then you are all set, and moreover that we’re all idiots for thinking that the language isn’t crystal clear.
 
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teslarati97 said:
(l) Transition Rule.--Solely for purposes of the application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that--
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act,
such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary's delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

I wish people would actually read the entire transition rule first before getting their knickers in a knot over written law and the spirit of the law. If you can demonstrate that during 2022 you ordered your MINI before the date of enactment, took delivery in 2022 but after date of enactment you can make the election (TBD? maybe an updated plug-in form) for the old credit to apply.
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Chill, man…just looking for an explanation on where your certainty comes from.
 
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