Buy Now or Wait for 2024

[AndysComputer]

I’ve always believed in a simple rule of thumb:

When buying a car never spend more than 6 months salary.
So if you’re buying a $30k car you should be earning at least $60k per year.
If you’re following that then for a simple tax return you will get close to the full $7.5k tax rebate.
I have nothing against the concept of a rebate to encourage public spending in a direction that ultimately benefits the country, especially when it an uneven playing field and expensive new technology, however it should have had a price cap for eligibility, say no more than 50% above the prior years average car price.
No-one buying a Model S back in the day, or a Taycan today, needs a rebate.
In fact the sales figures and long lines for a Tesla Model 3 and Y which are not eligible suggest a rebate is not required at those price points either. So maybe it should be capped at $50k or something.
That said, to truly benefit people spending under half their salary on a car it should be a point of sale rebate, with car dealers exempt and no rebate on above MSRP vehicles, as someone earning $40k and wanting to spend $20k on a car likely can’t wait for the rebate, and it would be too low anyway.

 

[Rexsio]

"If".

I, and I imagine most people in the market for a new EV, pay more than $7500 per year in federal taxes. (Indeed, one criticism of the federal tax break is that it mostly goes to those who need it the least.)

$7500 divided by even $5/gallon equals 1500 gallons of gasoline. 1500 gallons times even 25 mpg equals 37,500 miles, or about as far as the average person drives in 3 years. Add in the cost of electricity for the replacement EV, and the tax credit is basically equal to 4 years of free driving (at least from a fueling perspective). Change the scenario to less expensive gasoline (as was true for most of the US at until recently), and/or assume the ICE vehicle gets higher mileage (as you might expect for something MINI-sized), and that $7500 would take you even further.

TL,DR: $7500 is a significant incentive. Take it away, and the financial benefit of owning an EV would be markedly diminished.

Perfect explanation for anybody thanks . I drive 3000 miles a year ,retired and EV for me is like novelty not real car but SE I call race car I love it . I sold 2Porsches once I get EV and for 7years I enjoy those go carts I 3 and SE now . Much better dynamic than ice cars this size .The 100 miles for me is more than I need a week.Also my roof solar panels provide me free electricity as I charge a car .People who buys them should now what they need a car for ,not a cross country.

 

[CuriousGeorge]

I’ve always believed in a simple rule of thumb:

When buying a car never spend more than 6 months salary.
So if you’re buying a $30k car you should be earning at least $60k per year.
If you’re following that then for a simple tax return you will get close to the full $7.5k tax rebate.
I have nothing against the concept of a rebate to encourage public spending in a direction that ultimately benefits the country, especially when it an uneven playing field and expensive new technology, however it should have had a price cap for eligibility, say no more than 50% above the prior years average car price.
No-one buying a Model S back in the day, or a Taycan today, needs a rebate.
In fact the sales figures and long lines for a Tesla Model 3 and Y which are not eligible suggest a rebate is not required at those price points either. So maybe it should be capped at $50k or something.
That said, to truly benefit people spending under half their salary on a car it should be a point of sale rebate, with car dealers exempt and no rebate on above MSRP vehicles, as someone earning $40k and wanting to spend $20k on a car likely can’t wait for the rebate, and it would be too low anyway.

Heh. I have never spent more than a couple months' salary on a car. My current vehicle cost less than half a month's salary. That's not because I'm rich, I'm just cheap. An SE without the $7500 tax credit would be an extravagance I couldn't justify - even with it it would be an indulgence.

 

[Rexsio]

Heh. I have never spent more than a couple months' salary on a car. My current vehicle cost less than half a month's salary. That's not because I'm rich, I'm just cheap. An SE without the $7500 tax credit would be an extravagance I couldn't justify - even with it it would be an indulgence.

I’m the same way I was cheap with my cars all my live buying salvages with low milages and fix them bc I’m good mechanic .But now I retired. And I bought 2 new Mini SE and Subaru Forester if Mini can’t go through a snow.

 

[Jbrando]

I really appreciate everyone’s input. That’s what’s great about car forums.

The Mini was the first EV we looked at. With the incentives it makes for a very compelling option. And for what we’ll use the car for, the range really isn’t an issue. This past Saturday my wife and I walked the beach at Coronado, then headed to a mall in La Jolla to return some clothes my daughter ordered, and finally finished with a Costco run. In all we did 65 miles so no range issue. And the whole time I thought how much fun it would be doing this in the Mini.

Once we started looking at EVs, then I started looking at all others in the market including what’s coming soon. Thought being maybe we spend a little more money and get something with more range that we can take longer trips in. This becomes a slippery slope and suddenly you’re looking at cars $20k - $30k more.

I’m leaning more towards ordering the 2023 now knowing that it can fulfill our needs for many years. The next EV in 5 or 6 years can be the one that has long range. The only other problem is convincing my wife to order now. She insists that I don’t buy any other car until the 911 is in the garage. The other issue is I love BRG and she insists on Island Blue….which I do like as well.

More to come I’m sure.

I'm in San Diego and have done the same route in my '22 SE. Several trips to LA, Riverside, etc. for business were easy with a public charge. A twenty minute boost for an occasional long trip is not a big deal. The SE is an ideal fun daily driver for SoCal and two people. Can it check every box? No. What vehicle can, ICE, BEV or otherwise? Big fun, small price, great build quality. I've let several neighbors take it out for a spin. Most come back raving about the fun factor, but stating the typical "I need a car that can go 400 miles on a charge, just in case I need to go on a long trip." Meh, rent a car for that. I have an '08 Audi RS4 as a fun car; an awesome 6 speed manual V8 that gets 14mpg. It's not a daily driver, nor does it check every box. It seems that I often find myself saying what a fantastic car the Mini SE is. Zero regrets.

 

[Jbrando]

I recently went through the same thoughts on get the current version, or wait until the new one comes out. I went with the current 2023 version for the following reasons:

1. The classic mini look. I am not a fan of the leaked pictures of the new design coming out of China.
2. Get the car in my hands quicker. This is a bridge car for me until Rivian is delivered.
3. I actually want all the tactile controls on the inside.
4. Guaranteed to still get the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit and my state's $2,500 rebate.
5. If you end up changing your mind, there will be no issue selling the mini for close to what you paid for it (with the incentives) in a year or 2.

The biggest plus of waiting is I would expect the new model to have longer range and accept a faster DC charging rate.

Also, since you did look at other cars, it might not hurt to take a look at the entry level Tesla Model 3. It is still a great option, other than the fact that they are everywhere.

As someone said, the tech on these cars is constantly changing and there will always be something better the next year so can't be too worried about that. With the Mini's price after incentives, it is a very low risk proposition. I say get in and start enjoying!

** All that!. Nailed it!

 

[Cindy B]

Some people can't afford, or can't justify paying that much for a car. It's 3 times more expensive!

The MINI SE is so good right now that if you don't get one of the '23 models, you risk not having fun with it for a whole year, and you risk getting a car that's not as good or as fun to drive, or that doesn't look as good. In my opinion, the MINI is a work of art. Probably not all of you may share that opinion, but I've always loved the way this car looks (both the classic Mini and the BMW version). The fact that I can have a MINI electric now is just icing on the cake!

There's a reoccurring comment on all the SE forums and YouTube comments. Someone cites a much more expensive EV as a comparable choice. There's really no valid comparison in "bang for the buck" to the SE IMHO. We couldn't be happier with our 2022 SE.

 

[MmeLeota]

Thanks for the heads up. I was looking and MINI of San Diego. Any experience with them? We haven’t talked pricing yet, but I’m not expecting to pay a mark up. Please share your dealer, salesman, and experience. Thanks.

I didn't look at the MINI of SD since I was originally looking for a 22 out the door. I almost had one in San Jose, but the dealership was awful to work with over the phone so I ended up ordering on with the dealership in L.A. (this is also where we test drove a MINI) the dealership has since been great to work with and the sales person, Austin, excellent.

Escondido had a canceled order and I just happened to be calling and looking around then. They told me there would be fees, but before I made the drive from Orange County to Escondido, I asked for the OTD price. They were adding a 3k mark up and added 1.5k in dealer add ons (SWAT/ Clear Shield) that couldn't be removed. When I passed the sales person laughed and said, "good luck finding another one, you'll need it." So ya, that's how I ended up ordering a 2023 SE.

 

[Giosan]

Perfect explanation for anybody thanks . I drive 3000 miles a year ,retired and EV for me is like novelty not real car but SE I call race car I love it . I sold 2Porsches once I get EV and for 7years I enjoy those go carts I 3 and SE now . Much better dynamic than ice cars this size .The 100 miles for me is more than I need a week.Also my roof solar panels provide me free electricity as I charge a car .People who buys them should now what they need a car for ,not a cross country.

Rexsio, I've got a similar situation as yours and also, my wife's car is a Forester. My '22 mini se is truly a race car. I've used it at SCCA solo events the past 2 Sunday's. 1st with the stock tires which severely limited traction all around and then last Sunday with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires. What a transformation! I went from finishing 30 out of 36 with stock tires to 17th out of 78 with the stickies. I raced a 2013 modified Scion FRS before buying the Mini and actually did better in the Mini.

 

[Giosan]

It depends on what you need. I need a car I drive around town that must be fun to drive, price $35K or less, and reasonably quick. I only drive about 6K miles a year.

I considered the Miata RF and the Subaru BRZ. I test drove a Miata soft top but it was so loud. It had zero utility to it too. The BRZ had the torque dip until the new ones which came out this year. It is a hatch but not very useful. The SE is way cheaper to operate, quieter, has more utility, and tons of fun to drive.

The Yaris GR would be ideal but not available here.

So it really depends on what you are looking for in a car. I could see others comparing the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt but those cars are too tall and slow. They miss the point.

It depends on what you need. I need a car I drive around town that must be fun to drive, price $35K or less, and reasonably quick. I only drive about 6K miles a year.

I considered the Miata RF and the Subaru BRZ. I test drove a Miata soft top but it was so loud. It had zero utility to it too. The BRZ had the torque dip until the new ones which came out this year. It is a hatch but not very useful. The SE is way cheaper to operate, quieter, has more utility, and tons of fun to drive.

The Yaris GR would be ideal but not available here.

So it really depends on what you are looking for in a car. I could see others comparing the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt but those cars are too tall and slow. They miss the point.

I owned a 2013 Frs for 9 years and raced it in stx class at our local SCCA solo events. Bought a '22 Mini se last October and raced it the past 2 Sunday's. I found that there's no grip with the stock tires when pushing it, even though they feel great in daily driving. Last Sunday, I raced again, but with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires installed this time. What a world of difference! I did better than with the modified frs! In fact, a brz driver told me he wants one for his wife, (and as a 2nd track car). The frs actually had more space in the trunk but the Mini fits 4 tires back there too.

 

[insightman]

I owned a 2013 Frs for 9 years and raced it in stx class at our local SCCA solo events. Bought a '22 Mini se last October and raced it the past 2 Sunday's. I found that there's no grip with the stock tires when pushing it, even though they feel great in daily driving. Last Sunday, I raced again, but with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires installed this time. What a world of difference! I did better than with the modified frs! In fact, a brz driver told me he wants one for his wife, (and as a 2nd track car). The frs actually had more space in the trunk but the Mini fits 4 tires back there too.

Do you ever have the problem one YouTube tester suffered on the track when the SE's battery overheated and cut the available power by half? Just as in very cold weather, fewer segments on the power gauge on the left side of the instrument panel were lit. I've wondered what MINI did to prevent that problem for the Formula E safety car, which is an SE.

I'm glad you said that the stock tires are great for daily driving because I've never experienced any summer performance tires before getting my SE and I'm still in awe of the Hankooks. I'm sure I'll never push my SE past their capabilities, so any stickier tires wouldn't make any difference for me. One thing I like about the Hankooks is how they don't squeal much. Am I right in guessing that this quiet cornering is the same with the stickier Yokohamas?

 

[Carsten Haase]

I owned a 2013 Frs for 9 years and raced it in stx class at our local SCCA solo events. Bought a '22 Mini se last October and raced it the past 2 Sunday's. I found that there's no grip with the stock tires when pushing it, even though they feel great in daily driving. Last Sunday, I raced again, but with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires installed this time. What a world of difference! I did better than with the modified frs! In fact, a brz driver told me he wants one for his wife, (and as a 2nd track car). The frs actually had more space in the trunk but the Mini fits 4 tires back there too.

I'm jealous! I've been trying to figure out how to participate in my local autocross but it's at a ski resort parking lot 50mi away (and 3000ft up) with currently no charging options other than maybe a 110 somewhere.

Oregon is working to upgrade their old CHAdeMO infrastructure to CCS which would put a fast charger 20mi away.

From your experience, would ~60% SOC for a day of autocross be reasonable? Obviously depends on the course and the driver but I'm curious how much capacity you've been using.

Better tires definitely transform the car, not just for overall grip but also steering precision (OEM sidewalls are very thin). Unfortunately they also kill the range, the swap reduced my average by 34mi

 

[Rexsio]

I owned a 2013 Frs for 9 years and raced it in stx class at our local SCCA solo events. Bought a '22 Mini se last October and raced it the past 2 Sunday's. I found that there's no grip with the stock tires when pushing it, even though they feel great in daily driving. Last Sunday, I raced again, but with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires installed this time. What a world of difference! I did better than with the modified frs! In fact, a brz driver told me he wants one for his wife, (and as a 2nd track car). The frs actually had more space in the trunk but the Mini fits 4 tires back there too.

I owned a 2013 Frs for 9 years and raced it in stx class at our local SCCA solo events. Bought a '22 Mini se last October and raced it the past 2 Sunday's. I found that there's no grip with the stock tires when pushing it, even though they feel great in daily driving. Last Sunday, I raced again, but with Yokohama a052 extreme performance summer tires installed this time. What a world of difference! I did better than with the modified frs! In fact, a brz driver told me he wants one for his wife, (and as a 2nd track car). The frs actually had more space in the trunk but the Mini fits 4 tires back there too.

 

[Rexsio]

To get better place in a race did you try to make Mini SE lighter.one place is to replace 12 volt 50 ah battery which weight about 35 lbs. with bmw I 3 12 volt 20 ah which weight 13 lbs.not brand just Deca aftermarket 1/2 price .Remove back sits which give about 50 lbs. my estimate about sits weight ?The floor mats front and rear empty trunk 10 lbs.Total 82 lbs.This is just for start to lightened Se easy way.

 

[azausa]

Some people can't afford, or can't justify paying that much for a car. It's 3 times more expensive!

The MINI SE is so good right now that if you don't get one of the '23 models, you risk not having fun with it for a whole year, and you risk getting a car that's not as good or as fun to drive, or that doesn't look as good. In my opinion, the MINI is a work of art. Probably not all of you may share that opinion, but I've always loved the way this car looks (both the classic Mini and the BMW version). The fact that I can have a MINI electric now is just icing on the cake!

Totally with you on this @Newkirk, the current MINI SE is a work of art, electrified. What I love with the current MINI SE is that it is still the iconic F56 but electrified; just like the old Minis that they are converting to electric right now. IMO, I am not just driving an EV, I am driving a MINI SE.

 

[Giosan]

Do you ever have the problem one YouTube tester suffered on the track when the SE's battery overheated and cut the available power by half? Just as in very cold weather, fewer segments on the power gauge on the left side of the instrument panel were lit. I've wondered what MINI did to prevent that problem for the Formula E safety car, which is an SE.

I'm glad you said that the stock tires are great for daily driving because I've never experienced any summer performance tires before getting my SE and I'm still in awe of the Hankooks. I'm sure I'll never push my SE past their capabilities, so any stickier tires wouldn't make any difference for me. One thing I like about the Hankooks is how they don't squeal much. Am I right in guessing that this quiet cornering is the same with the stickier Yokohamas?

I never had the car overheat and hold back power, even after doing a test and tune event where we did 6- 55 second laps in the morning and 6 more after lunch. The only thing I noticed is that after I upgraded the tires, the brakes also worked much better and by the 4th run of the afternoon, I could smell them.
Luckily, I've never experienced the limiting by cold weather as I live I Honolulu. Perfect place for an ev. I'm pretty confident that I could get up to 170 miles from a full battery.
As far as squealing, it's almost impossible to do with the new tires. You have to corner at ridiculous speeds to get any sound out of them. They actually ride much smoother and quieter than stock but will wear out quickly.

 

[Giosan]

To get better place in a race did you try to make Mini SE lighter.one place is to replace 12 volt 50 ah battery which weight about 35 lbs. with bmw I 3 12 volt 20 ah which weight 13 lbs.not brand just Deca aftermarket 1/2 price .Remove back sits which give about 50 lbs. my estimate about sits weight ?The floor mats front and rear empty trunk 10 lbs.Total 82 lbs.This is just for start to lightened Se easy way.

Rexsio, if I changed the battery and removed the rear seat,I'm almost certain that will bump me up to a different class. Right now, I'm in GS class, the second slowest street class. If I went to EVX class, I'd be competing against all evs. We have a couple guys racing Tesla's model 3 performance and they're untouchable. Very capable, even on our tight courses.

 

[drdunkyn]

To get better place in a race did you try to make Mini SE lighter.one place is to replace 12 volt 50 ah battery which weight about 35 lbs. with bmw I 3 12 volt 20 ah which weight 13 lbs.not brand just Deca aftermarket 1/2 price .Remove back sits which give about 50 lbs. my estimate about sits weight ?The floor mats front and rear empty trunk 10 lbs.Total 82 lbs.This is just for start to lightened Se easy way.

I've taken bigger dumps than that. I've long since given up being a weight weenie. Dropping 80 lbs and losing your rear seats and floor mats, and replacing battery in the name of getting a few more seconds on the track is ridiculous, IMO. This isn't a track car. Being out-paced by Teslas while driving auto-cross with my BMW, I gave zero shltz. I enjoyed my time racing around, and whether I had my EMS bag in the trunk or not didn't make any difference. Enjoy this fun little car for what it is!!

 

[Jim In Tucson]

I say “buy now”. I was watching the MINI SE since it’s release but didn’t buy until early 2021, so I ended up with a 2022. I love it. One of the best and most fun cars I’ve ever owned.

My only regret is not buying an SE when it was first released.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[Giosan]

I'm jealous! I've been trying to figure out how to participate in my local autocross but it's at a ski resort parking lot 50mi away (and 3000ft up) with currently no charging options other than maybe a 110 somewhere.

Oregon is working to upgrade their old CHAdeMO infrastructure to CCS which would put a fast charger 20mi away.

From your experience, would ~60% SOC for a day of autocross be reasonable? Obviously depends on the course and the driver but I'm curious how much capacity you've been using.

Better tires definitely transform the car, not just for overall grip but also steering precision (OEM sidewalls are very thin). Unfortunately they also kill the range, the swap reduced my average by 34mi

I'm jealous! I've been trying to figure out how to participate in my local autocross but it's at a ski resort parking lot 50mi away (and 3000ft up) with currently no charging options other than maybe a 110 somewhere.

Oregon is working to upgrade their old CHAdeMO infrastructure to CCS which would put a fast charger 20mi away.

From your experience, would ~60% SOC for a day of autocross be reasonable? Obviously depends on the course and the driver but I'm curious how much capacity you've been using.

Better tires definitely transform the car, not just for overall grip but also steering precision (OEM sidewalls are very thin). Unfortunately they also kill the range, the swap reduced my average by 34mi

I only used about 30% soc during the test and tune. We did 12 double laps, each lasting over 50 seconds. Last Sunday, I did 9 laps under 30 seconds each on the new Yokohama a052 tires and used about 20%.

I'm jealous! I've been trying to figure out how to participate in my local autocross but it's at a ski resort parking lot 50mi away (and 3000ft up) with currently no charging options other than maybe a 110 somewhere.

Oregon is working to upgrade their old CHAdeMO infrastructure to CCS which would put a fast charger 20mi away.

From your experience, would ~60% SOC for a day of autocross be reasonable? Obviously depends on the course and the driver but I'm curious how much capacity you've been using.

Better tires definitely transform the car, not just for overall grip but also steering precision (OEM sidewalls are very thin). Unfortunately they also kill the range, the swap reduced my average by 34mi