Buy Now or Wait for 2024

[JonR]

The 2024 will be based on the Great Wall Ora Cat electric car. It only has 143 hp and 155 ft-lbs of torque. I fear that the 2024 Mini will also have this smaller and slower electric motor. And like you said, it is an all new platform.

The current SE is based on the Mini F56 chassis which came out in 2015. All of the little things that break or not engineered well have been revised and fixed. An example of that is the strut top hat bearing. This part was revised to address failures before the SE even came out.

There are tons of aftermarket parts available for it too. There are cosmetic, convenience, and suspension parts all available because this chassis has been for sale for so long.

The current SE is based on the BMW i3 which came out in 2014. This motor and battery pack design is all sorted out too.

The current Mini has to be more reliable, it has more aftermarket parts for it, and will most likely have more HP and torque.

 

[rajiv33]

I recently went through the same thoughts on get the current version, or wait until the new one comes out. I went with the current 2023 version for the following reasons:

1. The classic mini look. I am not a fan of the leaked pictures of the new design coming out of China.
2. Get the car in my hands quicker. This is a bridge car for me until Rivian is delivered.
3. I actually want all the tactile controls on the inside.
4. Guaranteed to still get the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit and my state's $2,500 rebate.
5. If you end up changing your mind, there will be no issue selling the mini for close to what you paid for it (with the incentives) in a year or 2.

The biggest plus of waiting is I would expect the new model to have longer range and accept a faster DC charging rate.

Also, since you did look at other cars, it might not hurt to take a look at the entry level Tesla Model 3. It is still a great option, other than the fact that they are everywhere.

As someone said, the tech on these cars is constantly changing and there will always be something better the next year so can't be too worried about that. With the Mini's price after incentives, it is a very low risk proposition. I say get in and start enjoying!

 

[CuriousGeorge]

I believe under current law the credit phases out the quarter following hitting the 200,000 mark, but doesn't immediately disappear. Based on MINI US sales data of under 30,000 cars per year since the SE came to market (assuming data are accurate), it will be a long time before MINI sells 200,000 electric vehicles.

I looked into this before. At least from the federal government's perspective, MINI/BMW are one company, so you need to factor in all i3s, i8s, and MINI and BMW hybrids in to the count as well. The 200k limit is still some years off, but a lot closer than you might expect based on SE sales alone.

 

[Newkirk]

I would spec a 4S for $120k after the incentives. That's actually fairly conservative considering the Porsche options game.

My mid tier SE was ~$24k after incentives.

Yeah. That's ridiculous! If I had all the money in the world, then I would get a 911. But I'd still want my SE!

 

[Newkirk]

I’m leaning more towards ordering the 2023 now knowing that it can fulfill our needs for many years. The next EV in 5 or 6 years can be the one that has long range. The only other problem is convincing my wife to order now. She insists that I don’t buy any other car until the 911 is in the garage. The other issue is I love BRG and she insists on Island Blue….which I do like as well.

The question is, what are you going to do with two amazing cars? How will you decide which one you drive? Will the 911 be for a specific purpose (track, weekend car, etc.), or just however you feel on a given day?

 

[CuriousGeorge]

The 2024 will be based on the Great Wall Ora Cat electric car. It only has 143 hp and 155 ft-lbs of torque. I fear that the 2024 Mini will also have this smaller and slower electric motor. And like you said, it is an all new platform.

Will the Ora Cat platform still be "new" in 2023? How difficult would it be for MINI to drop a more powerful motor into the SE version? So many unknowns...

(FWIW, in 1992 I almost bought a 1.8 L V6-powered Mazda MX-3. Largely due to the engine's newness/intricacy, I was counseled by some to wait. For other reasons I ended with a Civic Si, but AFAIK the reliability of the Mazda was just fine.)

 

[insightman]

Agreed there. I've been following matters quite closely, as a bit more range would be quite useful to me. As of yet, however, no specs (range, power, mass) are available.

The Ora Good Cat weighs 3,323 pounds (with the smaller 47.8 kWh battery, I assume). The 47.8 kWh battery provides 249 miles of range, probably based on the optimistic WLTP testing protocols.

Assuming the weight and range are comparable to the Good Cat's, my questions are about the Chinese MINI EV's height, center of gravity, suspension competence, torque, and horsepower.

 

[JonR]

It baffles me that people compare the SE to ANYTHING on the market.

It depends on what you need. I need a car I drive around town that must be fun to drive, price $35K or less, and reasonably quick. I only drive about 6K miles a year.

I considered the Miata RF and the Subaru BRZ. I test drove a Miata soft top but it was so loud. It had zero utility to it too. The BRZ had the torque dip until the new ones which came out this year. It is a hatch but not very useful. The SE is way cheaper to operate, quieter, has more utility, and tons of fun to drive.

The Yaris GR would be ideal but not available here.

So it really depends on what you are looking for in a car. I could see others comparing the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt but those cars are too tall and slow. They miss the point.

 

[Puppethead]

I looked into this before. At least from the federal government's perspective, MINI/BMW are one company, so you need to factor in all i3s, i8s, and MINI and BMW hybrids in to the count as well. The 200k limit is still some years off, but a lot closer than you might expect based on SE sales alone.

I'm pretty sure this was discussed previously and determined MINI is considered separate from BMW for the EV rebate. Federal Tax Credits for New All-Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (fueleconomy.gov) lists MINI separately from BMW.

 

[CuriousGeorge]

I'm pretty sure this was discussed previously and determined MINI is considered separate from BMW for the EV rebate. Federal Tax Credits for New All-Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (fueleconomy.gov) lists MINI separately from BMW.

Indeed, it has, and my apologies if I am spreading misinformation. Other sources, though, claim that the IRS considers them together.

ETA: The IRS attempts to explain things here:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/30d-manufacturer-faqs

The only easy-to-understand part is this, which indicates that you can't rely on the fact that BMW and MINI are listed as separate "manufacturers":

"Are each of the "manufacturers" listed on the 30D page separate manufacturers for purposes of Section 30D(e) (and thus under separate 200,000 caps), or is that just a breakdown of different companies/brands, even if some may be under a shared volume cap?

The irs.gov site focuses on identifying the vehicles which qualify for the Section 30D New Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit in an easy to understand manner for the general public. The listing is by manufacturer, or brand, even if some may be under a shared volume cap. When a phase out level is reached, which includes the controlled groups, all affected manufacturer/brand names listed are updated to include the phrase "Phase Out Initiated."'

(My wife keeps telling me to just shut up and order an SE... perhaps I'm subconsciously trying to convince myself to make the leap now, rather than waiting to see what the 2024 will be like?)

 

[MmeLeota]

Welcome Backpack!

I am also new and love this forum! I talked to multiple dealers in California before finding a sales person and dealership that I could work with. Based on your location a quick beware of Escondido Mini, they were marking up $3000 and adding around $2000 in additional fees like low jack...

 

[Carsten Haase]

It depends on what you need. I need a car I drive around town that must be fun to drive, price $35K or less, and reasonably quick. I only drive about 6K miles a year.

I considered the Miata RF and the Subaru BRZ. I test drove a Miata soft top but it was so loud. It had zero utility to it too. The BRZ had the torque dip until the new ones which came out this year. It is a hatch but not very useful. The SE is way cheaper to operate, quieter, has more utility, and tons of fun to drive.

The Yaris GR would be ideal but not available here.

Are you me? Haha those are the exact same cars I was cross shopping (and would also pick the GR Yaris if it was available and electric)

At this point, there are so few EVs that most people will stretch their requirements and cross shop cars that are not really in the same category.

Once I decided on an EV, I was considering the MINI, a Model 3, a used Bolt, a Crosstrek PHEV, and possibly a diy conversion. Ultimately I wasn't willing to compromise on the fun to drive part or pay more than $35k which basically means MINI.

 

[insightman]

It baffles me that people compare the SE to ANYTHING on the market.

My rule: No cross-shopping allowed against anything but another small, sporty EV ("small" eliminates the Taycan). A GR Yaris EV, BRZ EV or Miata EV could be very interesting, but they don't exist.

 

[Tommm]

My rule: No cross-shopping allowed against anything but another small, sporty EV ("small" eliminates the Taycan). A GR Yaris EV, BRZ EV or Miata EV could be very interesting, but they don't exist.

Why not compare it to a similarly priced car. What can one get for 25-30 grand? A few days ago my buddy dropped 26k on a hyundai elantra for his kid. Blech!! I urged him to get a rabbit/golf since the kid will be hauling musical equipment if things go the way the kid wants them to go. No good he said. Hyundai has better safety. Whatever that means. And the Mini gas is too small, not safe enough he said.

I know people with Taycans, and they love em. They also have a half million of cars in their multi million dollar houses. A few have nice trust funds too. Reality check.

 

[insightman]

Why not compare it to a similarly priced car. What can one get for 25-30 grand? A few days ago my buddy dropped 26k on a hyundai elantra for his kid. Blech!! I urged him to get a rabbit/golf since the kid will be hauling musical equipment if things go the way the kid wants them to go. No good he said. Hyundai has better safety. Whatever that means. And the Mini gas is too small, not safe enough he said.

I know people with Taycans, and they love em. They also have a half million of cars in their multi million dollar houses. A few have nice trust funds too. Reality check.

If one is willing to consider non-EVs, then similar-price, equal-fun, greater-utility, superior-range-per-tankful-of-$7-gas, perceived-status-boost all become valid criteria. But...

 

[Tommm]

If one is willing to consider non-EVs, then similar-price, equal-fun value, greater-utility, superior-range-per-tankful-of-$7 gas, perceived-status-boost all become valid criteria. But...

When we sold our daughters E46, and the fleet was relatively normal, I thought about a used Cooper for fun. But the cost of a new SE after the rebates, and my wife test driving the SE nixed that idea.

Just need the configurator to allow blue to be ordered. I wonder how far back in line I am from when they opened 2023 to orders.

 

[kicksology]

For context, here are the rumored specs for the 2024 Cooper Electric published by MotoringFile...

If rumors are to be believe [sic], MINI will make use of the Ora Kat’s single electric motor producing 169bhp and 184lb ft, (which results in a 0-31mph in 3.8sec) and come with driver assistance systems not seen in small cars before. It will also feature a range of around 250 miles in base form. That last number is identical to what we’ve heard from sources about the next generation MINI (although expect that to be closer to 200 miles on the EPA’s testing cycle). We’d also expect a Cooper S and even JCW variant with even greater performance.​

For comparison...

2023 Mini Cooper SE—US Specs
Weight: 3,143 lbs
Battery: 28.9 kWh (usable)
Max Charge Rate: 50 kW
Power: 181 bhp / 199 lb-ft of torque
Combined Range: 114 miles
0 - 60: 6.9 seconds, though most agree that that's a significant understatement

2022 Ora Cat 01—UK Specs
Weight: 3,323 lbs (I assume this is for the smaller battery—source)
Battery: 48 kWh or 63 kWh (I presume these are the usable figures—source)
Max Charge Rate: 80 kW
Power: 169 bhp / 184 lb-ft of torque (Note: These are much higher than the figures for the "Good Cat" model that's been available in China since 2020—that model offers 143 bhp / 155 lb-ft of torque)
Combined Range: 209 miles or 261 miles (on WLTP cycle)
0 - 62: 8.5 seconds for both battery capacities

According to the WhatCar article linked-to above, the Ora Cat 01 is set to "start at around £25,000, although it's unclear whether that figure includes the UK Government plug-in car grant of £2500." That converts to a starting price of a little over $32,700 USD. They're also reporting that the Ora Cat will be offered in three trim levels, including a sporty GT trim, but that "sporty-ness" will be in appearance only—no changes to performance for that trim level.

It's important to note that the Ora Cat is a five-door vehicle that measures 4.2 meters in length vs. today's SE at 3.8 meters. In addition, the reporting so far suggests that the new 2024 Mini Electric will be shorter than today's model, so the difference in length compared to the Ora Cat will be even greater, and I would assume that this should translate to lower curb weight. Wherever the weight ultimately nets out, it seems that the weight difference to today's car may not be as great as I had assumed given the new model's much larger battery.

Among the may unknowns, it seems certain that the 2024 model will offer greater range—perhaps as much as 2X—but less performance. The extent to which that diminishment in performance is actually perceptible is something we won't know until the car is actually available to drive.

I'm curious to see if MotoringFile's speculation about the different trim levels actually pans out. Will Mini offer a non-S base electric model with the Ora Cat's base 143 bhp/155 lb-ft-of-torque motor? Will the S-model get the 169 bhp motor that seems to be pegged for the UK-market Ora Cat? Do Great Wall/Mini have an even higher power motor up their sleeves for a JCW variant?

Exciting times! But, to answer the OP's question, I would order the 2023 now and have a blast driving it for years to come. After all, who knows what the future has in store for us?

 

[teslarati97]

Ora will certainly weight more and be slower if utilizing the lower density LFP chemistry (BYD blade maybe?). I suppose that's the trade-off with NCM.

 

[insightman]

Just need the configurator to allow blue to be ordered. I wonder how far back in line I am from when they opened 2023 to orders.

I hope your MA is staying on the case for Island Blue. Assuming Island Blue actually is a color option, it's hard to understand why the configuator is so difficult to update. Then, again, so much about MINI's operations is inscrutable.

 

[chrunck]

For context, here are the rumored specs for the 2024 Cooper Electric published by MotoringFile...

If rumors are to be believe [sic], MINI will make use of the Ora Kat’s single electric motor producing 169bhp and 184lb ft, (which results in a 0-31mph in 3.8sec) and come with driver assistance systems not seen in small cars before. It will also feature a range of around 250 miles in base form. That last number is identical to what we’ve heard from sources about the next generation MINI (although expect that to be closer to 200 miles on the EPA’s testing cycle). We’d also expect a Cooper S and even JCW variant with even greater performance.​

For comparison...

2023 Mini Cooper SE—US Specs
Weight: 3,143 lbs
Battery: 28.9 kWh (usable)
Max Charge Rate: 50 kW
Power: 181 bhp / 199 lb-ft of torque
Combined Range: 114 miles
0 - 60: 6.9 seconds, though most agree that that's a significant understatement

2022 Ora Cat 01—UK Specs
Weight: 3,323 lbs (I assume this is for the smaller battery—source)
Battery: 48 kWh or 63 kWh (I presume these are the usable figures—source)
Max Charge Rate: 80 kW
Power: 169 bhp / 184 lb-ft of torque (Note: These are much higher than the figures for the "Good Cat" model that's been available in China since 2020—that model offers 143 bhp / 155 lb-ft of torque)
Combined Range: 209 miles or 261 miles (on WLTP cycle)
0 - 62: 8.5 seconds for both battery capacities

According to the WhatCar article linked-to above, the Ora Cat 01 is set to "start at around £25,000, although it's unclear whether that figure includes the UK Government plug-in car grant of £2500." That converts to a starting price of a little over $32,700 USD. They're also reporting that the Ora Cat will be offered in three trim levels, including a sporty GT trim, but that "sporty-ness" will be in appearance only—no changes to performance for that trim level.

It's important to note that the Ora Cat is a five-door vehicle that measures 4.2 meters in length vs. today's SE at 3.8 meters. In addition, the reporting so far suggests that the new 2024 Mini Electric will be shorter than today's model, so the difference in length compared to the Ora Cat will be even greater, and I would assume that this should translate to lower curb weight. Wherever the weight ultimately nets out, it seems that the weight difference to today's car may not be as great as I had assumed given the new model's much larger battery.

Among the may unknowns, it seems certain that the 2024 model will offer greater range—perhaps as much as 2X—but less performance. The extent to which that diminishment in performance is actually perceptible is something we won't know until the car is actually available to drive.

I'm curious to see if MotoringFile's speculation about the different trim levels actually pans out. Will Mini offer a non-S base electric model with the Ora Cat's base 143 bhp/155 lb-ft-of-torque motor? Will the S-model get the 169 bhp motor that seems to be pegged for the UK-market Ora Cat? Do Great Wall/Mini have an even higher power motor up their sleeves for a JCW variant?

Exciting times! But, to answer the OP's question, I would order the 2023 now and have a blast driving it for years to come. After all, who knows what the future has in store for us?

Yeah those anticipated specs aren't enticing to me. Maybe they'll sell fine because people seem to fixate on range, but more weight and less power is the opposite of what I want in a successor.