Clarity Fuel Cell

JyChevyVolt said:
About the Avis rental. Can we get minivan or 6 seater SUV? I have a 9 day road trip coming up with six people.
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I just tried my link with location as SJC (san jose airport). I don't see minivan, but 7 seat SUV yes. May be it includes minivans. . The price is included. See pic below.
FYI, it took 20 days from my purchase date for the Avis code to arrive.

avis_rental_SJC.webp
 
JyChevyVolt said:
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!! My trip starts June 17. Hopefully, I get the code before that.
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Just to complete the info for anyone who stumbles upon this, here is what I see when I actually try to book it.

Equipment / Services
Additional Driver $0.00/day
GPS Navigation $14.45/day
Roadside Assistance $7.99/day
TravelTab Unlimited Wifi $21.99/day
SiriusXM Satellite Radio $7.99/day
Fuel Plans Price not included in Estimated Total
Market Child Safety Seats $14.00/day Safety $14.00/day

Protections / Coverages
Additional Liability Insurance (ALI) $15.06/day
Personal Effects Protection (PEP) $2.95/day
Loss Damage Waiver (LDW) $0.00/day
Personal Accident Insurance (PAI) $7.00/day

Reservation Details
Standard Elite SUVFord Explorer or similar
Taxes and Surcharges $0.00
Protections / Coverages $0.00
Loss Damage Waiver (LDW) $0.00
Mileage Unlimited Free miles
 
JyChevyVolt said:
There's a one year waiting list for the Clarity Fuel Cell. It's impossible to get that vehicle.
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So you are saying you didn't have a reservation? The way you were talking, I thought you or your Mom had a res, and today was your day to pick up.
What were you thinking ? :) They sell every Clarity they make. :) LOL, that's true for all cars.
Actually, they only make the ones that are already sold.

Yeah, I put down $1000 deposit back in Jan, sight unseen. Dealer said there is one year wait. Then in April, they called, said someone dropped out, and if I would like to have a look. I said, yeah, sure. Test drove 2 mins and I was sold.
 
TeslaInvestors said:
Just to complete the info for anyone who stumbles upon this, here is what I see when I actually try to book it.

Equipment / Services
Additional Driver $0.00/day
GPS Navigation $14.45/day
Roadside Assistance $7.99/day
TravelTab Unlimited Wifi $21.99/day
SiriusXM Satellite Radio $7.99/day
Fuel Plans Price not included in Estimated Total
Market Child Safety Seats $14.00/day Safety $14.00/day

Protections / Coverages
Additional Liability Insurance (ALI) $15.06/day
Personal Effects Protection (PEP) $2.95/day
Loss Damage Waiver (LDW) $0.00/day
Personal Accident Insurance (PAI) $7.00/day

Reservation Details
Standard Elite SUVFord Explorer or similar
Taxes and Surcharges $0.00
Protections / Coverages $0.00
Loss Damage Waiver (LDW) $0.00
Mileage Unlimited Free miles
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I knew there were hidden fees. I used a rental company that doesn't charge for those things.
TeslaInvestors said:
So you are saying you didn't have a reservation? The way you were talking, I thought you or your Mom had a res, and today was your day to pick up.
What were you thinking ? :) They sell every Clarity they make. :) LOL, that's true for all cars.
Actually, they only make the ones that are already sold.

Yeah, I put down $1000 deposit back in Jan, sight unseen. Dealer said there is one year wait. Then in April, they called, said someone dropped out, and if I would like to have a look. I said, yeah, sure. Test drove 2 mins and I was sold.
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The dealer said come on down. There's 12 listed on their website. People on insideevs said these FCV were not popular, joking about the sales numbers. Come to find out, the demand is Hugh!I put my name on all the dealership list.

The Mirai, on the other hand, is sitting on the lot. We might have to settle on the Mirai. Scheduled a test drive tomorrow.
 
FCVs get an additional $5,000 rebate in California (in addition to the federal tax credit). EVs by comparison get half of that, and PHEVs get $1500. And as of this year, there are some additional financial hoops to jump through… Still, it's not hard to see why they're in demand.
 
bfd said:
FCVs get an additional $5,000 rebate in California (in addition to the federal tax credit). EVs by comparison get half of that, and PHEVs get $1500. And as of this year, there are some additional financial hoops to jump through… Still, it's not hard to see why they're in demand.
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No, the fed tax credit expired for FCEVs in 2016. Then for 2017, it was retroactively given to buyers in 2017. I guess only Toyota got it, since people would rather lease for $349/month than pay $57,500 for Mirai. I still think, leasing is better, since hydrogen still costs too much to pay by yourself after 3 years.

For CARB rebate of $5000 (or any other): Now there is income cap. If family income is >= $300k, one either gets the rebate or the HOV sticker, but not both.
If below income threshold, then gets both.
 
JyChevyVolt said:
I knew there were hidden fees. I used a rental company that doesn't charge for those things.

The dealer said come on down. There's 12 listed on their website. People on insideevs said these FCV were not popular, joking about the sales numbers. Come to find out, the demand is Hugh!I put my name on all the dealership list.

The Mirai, on the other hand, is sitting on the lot. We might have to settle on the Mirai. Scheduled a test drive tomorrow.
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LOL, "People on insideevs" and Tesla forums make up one weird world detached from all reality. The real world out there with 99% of people is very different.

Are you sure dealer listed FCEVs? I have seen some mistaken listings on cars.com. They are phev/electric, but showed up in fuel cell. I contacted them, asked to correct the info. I don't think they bother with correcting these.

My dealer also required a $1000 diown payment. Sounds like you just gave your name, but no deposit? Wonder how it works in LA area.

Mirai is nice, but now it is second class compared to Clarity. Most new Mirai owners I met at refueling stations said the same thing. They couldn't wait one year.
But just so you are aware, here are the minuses I felt ( I test drove one last year and was seriously thinking at a point):
- Four seats due to rear passenger console.
- 312 mile EPA range vs 366 mile for Clarity FC.
- Leg room is little tight in the back.
- Small instrument panel mounted on dashboard.
- 12k miles/year lease deal vs. 20k miles/yr for Clarity
- I think it is also less powerful, but don't remember horse power numbers.
(These may not matter to some)

Plus:
- $349/mo instead of $369/mo for Clarity
- You can buy it if you want. And can get one right now without any waiting.
 
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TeslaInvestors said:
LOL, "People on insideevs" and Tesla forums make up one weird world detached from all reality. The real world out there with 99% of people is very different.

Are you sure dealer listed FCEVs? I have seen some mistaken listings on cars.com. They are phev/electric, but showed up in fuel cell. I contacted them, asked to correct the info. I don't think they bother with correcting these.

My dealer also required a $1000 diown payment. Sounds like you just gave your name, but no deposit? Wonder how it works in LA area.

Mirai is nice, but now it is second class compared to Clarity. Most new Mirai owners I met at refueling stations said the same thing. They couldn't wait one year.
But just so you are aware, here are the minuses I felt ( I test drove one last year and was seriously thinking at a point):
- Four seats due to rear passenger console.
- 312 mile EPA range vs 366 mile for Clarity FC.
- Leg room is little tight in the back.
- Small instrument panel mounted on dashboard.
- 12k miles/year lease deal vs. 20k miles/yr for Clarity
- I think it is also less powerful, but don't remember horse power numbers.
(These may not matter to some)

Plus:
- $349/mo instead of $369/mo for Clarity
- You can buy it if you want. And can get one right now without any waiting.
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Yes, the list was correct. I saw 5 on the lot. The FCV has vents on the side.

I heard the Clarity is way more efficient than the Mirai. I leaning towards waiting for the Clarity. I don't want Volt 2.0 with those cramp seats in the rear.
 
I’d have bought it in a heartbeat over the PHEV Clarity if it were available to purchase instead of lease and the H2 infrastructure was mature. It’s just not possible for most of us outside of a limited area in Cali.
 
KentuckyKen said:
I’d have bought it in a heartbeat over the PHEV Clarity if it were available to purchase instead of lease and the H2 infrastructure was mature. It’s just not possible for most of us outside of a limited area in Cali.
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No one would look twice at this car without the $15,000 in fuel, HOV sticker, and the $5,000 California rebate.

The lowest fuel price that I've seen on the Internet is about $10 per KG. Can you buy the fuel cheaper then that?
 
marshall said:
No one would look twice at this car without the $15,000 in fuel, HOV sticker, and the $5,000 California rebate.

The lowest fuel price that I've seen on the Internet is about $10 per KG. Can you buy the fuel cheaper then that?
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So without the 3 year fuel rebate what is the cost for a full tank of H2 that gets Teslainvestors his 334 miles of range? And is there any loss of H2 over time from the tank that has to be accounted for. Thanks, I’m trying to figure out how much it would truly cost to drive in a real world scenario. Is there a Mulroney sticker for the Clarity FC?
 
KentuckyKen said:
So without the 3 year fuel rebate what is the cost for a full tank of H2 that gets Teslainvestors his 334 miles of range? And is there any loss of H2 over time from the tank that has to be accounted for. Thanks, I’m trying to figure out how much it would truly cost to drive in a real world scenario. Is there a Mulroney sticker for the Clarity FC?
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Yeah, buying is not a good idea right now financially.
It's $16.66/kg at the pump that gets you 73 miles/kg EPA. I'm getting ~68 miles/kg.
The tank is 5 kg. Check the article linked above. Right now, it costs twice as much as a gas car to fuel up.
"Hope" is, hydrigen price will come down in future.

I don't see any significant standby loss.
There is a Monroney sticker. It's price is $59k.
 
Thanks for the info.
So splitting the difference and dividing $16.66 by 70 miles gives $0.24 per mile without the 3 yrs free H2.
Wow, that more than I expected. That’s 8 times the per mile cost of the PHEV. I guess you’re hoping economy of scale will bring down price when (or if, for me) H2 takes off and goes mainstream.
It’s going to take a huge reduction in H2 price to even come close to PHEV Clarity’s electric cost per mile of $0.03 (EPA 33.4 kW per 100 miles, $.10/kW).
It works for you with all the rebates and incentives and in a limited area but not for the rest of us in the foreseeable future.
I’m happy it’s working out for you.
 
marshall said:
No one would look twice at this car without the $15,000 in fuel, HOV sticker, and the $5,000 California rebate.

The lowest fuel price that I've seen on the Internet is about $10 per KG. Can you buy the fuel cheaper then that?
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Probably not, but these vehicles, Clarity FC and EV, are lease only so they are accumulating real world use for analysis purposes when they get turned in after lease. My feeling is they get a bunch of units to crash test when they are returned to see how good or bad the limits are for them.


Fuel cells are going to have some applications, so it makes sense to continue research. Apparently submarines are a top field for them, since they have all the water access they need and very limited sun exposure, it will reduce use of nuclear in the ocean.
 
KentuckyKen said:
Thanks for the info.
So splitting the difference and dividing $16.66 by 70 miles gives $0.24 per mile without the 3 yrs free H2.
Wow, that more than I expected. That’s 8 times the per mile cost of the PHEV. I guess you’re hoping economy of scale will bring down price when (or if, for me) H2 takes off and goes mainstream
It’s going to take a huge reduction in H2 price to even come close to PHEV Clarity’s electric cost per mile of $0.03 (EPA 33.4 kW per 100 miles, $.10/kW).
It works for you with all the rebates and incentives and in a limited area but not for the rest of us in the foreseeable future.
I’m happy it’s working out for you.
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OK, I'm not sure from where you are getting $0.10/KWh. In San Diego, the EV rate is $0.22 per KWh at night. Nowhere is it cheaper than $0.13 a kWh. Looks like you are also missing the taxes for electricity cost, which the hydrogen cost includes.

https://www.sdge.com/residential/pricing-plans/about-our-pricing-plans/electric-vehicle-plans
Super off peak: $0.22/KWh
Off peak: $0.28/kWh
On peak: $0.54/KWh

Unless you live in coal country and are getting your electricity from pure coal, or have your own utility scale solar, I don't see where you get such cheap power.
Then add the cost of installing a fast charger at home, or having to install separate meter and possibyl upgrade panel/dig trench to put new wires. These aren't free.

But if you compare the price of electricity for on-the-go charging, aka rapid charging, then the cost is not too far off.
As Elon said, for cities, it's the cost of the space that is more than the cost fo the electric charging.
 
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Ahem, note my moniker, KentuckyKen.
Moved to good old Kentucky where there are no EV rebates or tax incentives,the utility company is trying to end net metering for the solar homes, there is no off peak rate, and state wants to tax all EV (even PHEVs) $100 at yearly registration. Could it possibly get any more Luddite or backwards?

My rate is indeed 0.10/kWh, but get this, the utility company installed 2 Level 2 EVSEs downtown to show how “green” they are and charge $3/hr! Works out to be $6.75 for a Clarity full charge of around 14 kW. That works out to $0.48/kW!! No wonder it’s hardly used.
I used my home charging rate.
Using your off peak rate to home charge it’s still only $0.09/mile where you’re at vs $0.24/mile for H2. Still a big difference with out the 3 years free.
 
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