Tow charging

  • Thread starter Thread starter azausa
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azausa said:
Has somebody here been tow charge already? Is it possible to tow charge a MINI SE?

I saw this article where a Tesla Model 3 was tow charged by a BMW X5 PHEV -> https://insideevs.com/news/555687/b...LDhDD0CT-DvrCJV4clGqsb3MV-ZSYWyTkRfXXX4kvbmJI
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The Owners Manual says towing the MINI is not supported or even allowed.

The Manual says that the MINI can only be moved a short distance to get it out of a traffic or potentially dangerous position.

It further says that it should be transported on a flat bed. I wouldn't consider tow charging given the warnings.
 
I'm sure the car would be ok to tow charge a bit, it's literally no different from the car's perspective than going down a long hill. However (like the Tesla did in that video) it'll likely overheat after too long and could do some damage.

Pretty sure I saw a video somewhere of a Mach-E overheating from regen down Mt Evans or maybe Pikes Peak in Colorado
 
The Rivian R1T is designed for tow charging, but I don't know of any other EV that is. It shouldn't be much different from regenerative braking, in theory.
 
FrankinCarp said:
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Um, if the manual is laden with exclamation marks surrounded by red triangles at every mention of towing, pushing, or even thinking about doing either, I think it would be extremely foolhardy to assume "that it's probably OK to 'tow charge' the car because it's just like regen braking." It's pretty clear that the manufacturer sees no similarity at all between the two things.
 
nogasman said:
Um, if the manual is laden with exclamation marks surrounded by red triangles at every mention of towing, pushing, or even thinking about doing either, I think it would be extremely foolhardy to assume "that it's probably OK to 'tow charge' the car because it's just like regen braking." It's pretty clear that the manufacturer sees no similarity at all between the two things.
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I am certain that the car would not break if you towed it for a short period with it on and in drive.

However there are a lot of ways that you could break it by towing. Mostly:
  • If the car is off and you tow it, you could fry some of the electronics
  • If you towed it for too long or at too high speed it could overheat and damage the motor or other electronics
The section in the manual is addressing the "typical" cases where a car would be towed: broken or behind an RV. Both of these cases would not have a driver and the car would be off which would absolutely cause damage.

They could allow tow charging but that means they'd have to invest in the testing and take on liability for damage which likely wasn't worth the benefit of allowing a couple of owners to tow charge in an emergency.

Another semi-related example of manufacturers "banning" something for no reason is towing. Tons of vehicles are sold in the US that say "not rated for towing" or "do not tow" yet the exact same vehicle in Europe is rated to tow 1000-1500lbs. The only difference is that Europeans expect cars to tow so manufacturers go through the trouble of testing.

Edit: don't take my word for it though, MotorTrend asked Ford, Rivian, and others
 
First of all, my Kona manual say this about trailer towing: "We do not recommend using this vehicle for trailer towing." That's it. Full stop. No exclamation points, no triangles, no cautionary warnings about damage to the vehicle. There is also no statement of banning the practice. So, if the scenarios are comparable, why the amped up admonitions regarding towing the vehicle? What possible rationale would Hyundai have from exaggerating the consequences of towing the Kona but merely a mild "we do not recommend" regarding pulling a trailer? Why not the same supposed hyperbole to dissuade trailer towing? You've provided not a shred of evidence that Hyundai's strongly worded statement regarding towing should be regarded as somehow being false. What do they have to gain by specifying flat bed towing? Given a total lack of evidence that Hyundai is somehow being deceptive, it would be foolhardy to blithely disregard those admonitions because you assume that they are - for some yet unexplained reason - being deceptive. There is no way in hell that I will go out and try and tow charge my Kona because you are sure that there will be no problem. There can be no compelling reason for doing so. But by all means, feel free to test your theory on your own Kona.
 
Towing & being towed are not the same thing. OP is talking about dragging a mini behind a truck to regen charge the battery, you're talking about pulling a trailer behind a Kona.
 
First, the original question was "Is it possible to tow charge a MINI SE?" not is it a good idea or does MINI allow it. I do not suggest tow charging and won't be trying it myself but if done correctly it is possible without damaging the car.


nogasman said:
First of all, my Kona manual say this about trailer towing: "We do not recommend using this vehicle for trailer towing." That's it. Full stop. No exclamation points, no triangles, no cautionary warnings about damage to the vehicle. There is also no statement of banning the practice.
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The hitch was just an example of manufacturers saying don't do something for no real reason.

nogasman said:
why the amped up admonitions regarding towing the vehicle? What possible rationale would Hyundai have from exaggerating the consequences of towing the Kona but merely a mild "we do not recommend" regarding pulling a trailer? Why not the same supposed hyperbole to dissuade trailer towing?
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Because, as I said above, you can do some serious damage by flat towing.

nogasman said:
You've provided not a shred of evidence that Hyundai's strongly worded statement regarding towing should be regarded as somehow being false. What do they have to gain by specifying flat bed towing? Given a total lack of evidence that Hyundai is somehow being deceptive, it would be foolhardy to blithely disregard those admonitions because you assume that they are - for some yet unexplained reason - being deceptive.
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Was the MotorTrend article with input from industry experts addressing exactly why tow charging is possible but not recommended not enough?

I also specifically called out the difference between towing by a tow truck when broken and towing with a driver and the car on to charge in my post above.

Manufacturers specifically say do not flat tow because you can damage the car and flat towing with a strap is not exactly the safest activity. They don't trust their customers to understand the correct way to do it so they just say no. The exclamations are there because the consequences are more severe.
 
Carsten Haase said:
I am certain that the car would not break if you towed it for a short period with it on and in drive.

However there are a lot of ways that you could break it by towing. Mostly:
  • If the car is off and you tow it, you could fry some of the electronics
  • If you towed it for too long or at too high speed it could overheat and damage the motor or other electronics
The section in the manual is addressing the "typical" cases where a car would be towed: broken or behind an RV. Both of these cases would not have a driver and the car would be off which would absolutely cause damage.

They could allow tow charging but that means they'd have to invest in the testing and take on liability for damage which likely wasn't worth the benefit of allowing a couple of owners to tow charge in an emergency.

Another semi-related example of manufacturers "banning" something for no reason is towing. Tons of vehicles are sold in the US that say "not rated for towing" or "do not tow" yet the exact same vehicle in Europe is rated to tow 1000-1500lbs. The only difference is that Europeans expect cars to tow so manufacturers go through the trouble of testing.

Edit: don't take my word for it though, MotorTrend asked Ford, Rivian, and others
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Similarly, the manual bans towing the SE even with its front wheels elevated on a dolly. As the aft wheels freewheel regardless of what drags them around, and there is no departure angle problem, the only possible explanation for the prohibition is the liability/testing angle.
 
F14Scott said:
Similarly, the manual bans towing the SE even with its front wheels elevated on a dolly.
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My 2015 Hardtop owner's manual said towing with elevated front wheels was okay, but all MINIs now indicate flatbed towing only. I suspect they changed so there would be no confusion about why a MINI gets towed to the dealer.
 
I don't suppose there are sensors and computers active that would be upset when the rear wheels are spinning a lot faster than the front.... and do something like applying brakes or another stability control feature?

What if someone mistakenly left the car in on mode, dunno how one would do that long term without staying in the car.
 
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