Unreliability?

[azausa]

So I top-up the SE last night and woke up and looked at the MINI app to tell me that the SE is fully charged and I have 165km. So I went to the garage to unplug the car and noticed that the SE on the dash told me yup, 100% charged but I have 164km range; and I checked the MINI app and yup, I do only have 164km.

Did I just lost 1km by unplugging the SE?

Also, the brochure said 233km based on WLTP; I have never seen 200km on my dash; is it bec the SE is defaulted to Mid mode? I have always driven in Mid mode; have not driven yet though beyond a 60km radius.

If I have 164km from a full charge, using Mid mode with AC on and nav on and music on and I want to go for a 140 km drive with an elevation of 600metres and wind gusts of 26kph, will I have 20% battery left still at destination?

 

[Carsten Haase]

So I top-up the SE last night and woke up and looked at the MINI app to tell me that the SE is fully charged and I have 165km. So I went to the garage to unplug the car and noticed that the SE on the dash told me yup, 100% charged but I have 164km range; and I checked the MINI app and yup, I do only have 164km.

Did I just lost 1km by unplugging the SE?

Also, the brochure said 233km based on WLTP; I have never seen 200km on my dash; is it bec the SE is defaulted to Mid mode? I have always driven in Mid mode; have not driven yet though beyond a 60km radius.

If I have 164km from a full charge, using Mid mode with AC on and nav on and music on and I want to go for a 140 km drive with an elevation of 600metres and wind gusts of 26kph, will I have 20% battery left still at destination?

It's been pretty well documented here that the range meter is wildly inaccurate and can't be trusted. For example, most days on my drive home from work the range meter actually goes up over my 16mi drive.

If you want to know your range you have to calculate it based on the distance traveled and change in battery percentage. One one of these forum posts, someone made a little app that does the math for you.

 

[insightman]

Also, the brochure said 233km based on WLTP

The WLTP range test is notoriously optimistic. However, converting the EPA's 114-mile estimate to 183.5 km is still a lot more than the 165 km you're seeing.

I believe the GOM relies on recent driving patterns to come up with the numbers it displays. Perhaps the gravity is stronger in your part of the world, affecting your range by making your right foot consistently heavier?

 

[polyphonic]

Like others said, it's just the computer being a stupid liar.

Use the top button of the turn signal stalk to cycle the information display until it shows battery %.

 

[Carsten Haase]

Inaccurate range estimates are not just an EV problem, they're even worse on ICE cars! The only problem is people are actually paying attention to them now.

I did a 550 mile road trip a couple of weeks ago and the range estimation on my wife's Subaru stayed around 420 miles of range for more than 200 miles!

 

[Puppethead]

Inaccurate range estimates are not just an EV problem, they're even worse on ICE cars! The only problem is people are actually paying attention to them now.

I believe it. In ICE vehicles I'd use miles per gallon as a gauge for how efficient my driving was, and use miles per fill-up (resetting trip odometer at every fueling stop). Which I guess was measuring miles per dollar to get a sense of fuel economy. I never calculated to the mile how far I could go, but in an EV everyone talks about range in miles. I suspect it's a result of not having convenient recharging everywhere, like being able to find a gas station every mile or two.

 

[Jim In Tucson]

My experience has been that if most of my driving is short range, lots of small trips and errands, the GOM is much less accurate. When I am driving longer routes the GOM accuracy increases significantly.
I don’t think there has been a single incident of an SE owner running out of battery power.

And, not a single SE has ever caught fire.

Or, crashed itself into a patrol car.

Our SE’s are so far ahead of other EV’s it’s simply, well, fantastic!

 

[azausa]

The WLTP range test is notoriously optimistic. However, converting the EPA's 114-mile estimate to 183.5 km is still a lot more than the 165 km you're seeing.

I believe the GOM relies on recent driving patterns to come up with the numbers it displays. Perhaps the gravity is stronger in your part of the world, affecting your range by making your right foot consistently heavier?

Luv it, @insightman; truth be told I do have a heavy foot on both pedals; I still find myself stomping on the brakes even on heavy regen. The SE is the 1st car I’ve driven with cruise control and I love it; I don’t have to watch my speed [emoji23]. On my old Subaru, without cruise control, my speed limiter was my wife


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[azausa]

I believe it. In ICE vehicles I'd use miles per gallon as a gauge for how efficient my driving was, and use miles per fill-up (resetting trip odometer at every fueling stop). Which I guess was measuring miles per dollar to get a sense of fuel economy. I never calculated to the mile how far I could go, but in an EV everyone talks about range in miles. I suspect it's a result of not having convenient recharging everywhere, like being able to find a gas station every mile or two.

Totally, @Puppethead, in my Subaru before, even when I drive like a maniac, I always knew when it needs petrol, the fuel gauge was only that a gauge. With the SE telling me the limited range I can drive it, it just puts my head in. The car is basically driven by a software which is telling me what I can do and cannot do.

But, hey I still love our SE, I just love the torque and the cornering, and I will put her into phases just how I did with my Subaru.


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[azausa]

Like others said, it's just the computer being a stupid liar.

Use the top button of the turn signal stalk to cycle the information display until it shows battery %.

Yup, @polyphonic; I’m doing this now. It used to be the calendar date, and I asked myself why do I want to know the date when I’m driving [emoji38]

 

[Texas22Step]

So I top-up the SE last night and woke up and looked at the MINI app to tell me that the SE is fully charged and I have 165km. So I went to the garage to unplug the car and noticed that the SE on the dash told me yup, 100% charged but I have 164km range; and I checked the MINI app and yup, I do only have 164km.

I think many other forum members have reminded you already that "range" is relative to lots of factors, including local weather (such as ambient temperature), driving style, topography, and etc., so I won't go there again.

But, the small (1 km) difference in the car's range as shown in the MINI app and on the dash of the car itself after a full charge is interesting anyway, even if not particularly significant in this case. (I am wondering if the app may be simply rounding up the range number reported by the car, whereas the car's computer itself doesn't do that?)

Anyway, I tend to rely on the information in the app, and any difference between the two (app & car itself) is of potential interest in several ways other than range. For example, if the app shows the car as locked, I take it to be locked in the real world too. But maybe not?

Has anyone else experienced a discrepancy between the app info and the car's info or status?

 

[azausa]

I think many other forum members have reminded you already that "range" is relative to lots of factors, including local weather (such as ambient temperature), driving style, topography, and etc., so I won't go there again.

But, the small (1 km) difference in the car's range as shown in the MINI app and on the dash of the car itself after a full charge is interesting anyway, even if not particularly significant in this case. (I am wondering if the app may be simply rounding up the range number reported by the car, whereas the car's computer itself doesn't do that?)

Anyway, I tend to rely on the information in the app, and any difference between the two (app & car itself) is of potential interest in several ways other than range. For example, if the app shows the car as locked, I take it to be locked in the real world too. But maybe not?

Has anyone else experienced a discrepancy between the app info and the car's info or status?

That is exactly my point, @Texas22Step; totally aware that the GOM is totally unreliable. But the 1km difference is significant to me as the car has not even move, it was not even at a ready state. The difference was caused from POV when I unplugged the car from the house wall outlet. The MINI app reported that I had 165km to run after a 100% charge then when I unplugged it from the wall outlet the car and the MINI app reported I now have 164km to run on a 100% charge. So unplugging the car from the house power outlet consumes 1km already without the car even moving?

 

[Newkirk]

Anyway, I tend to rely on the information in the app, and any difference between the two (app & car itself) is of potential interest in several ways other than range. For example, if the app shows the car as locked, I take it to be locked in the real world too. But maybe not?

Has anyone else experienced a discrepancy between the app info and the car's info or status?

For me, the app is not entirely reliable. One time after charging, the GOM on the app said I had 135 miles range (which itself is odd), but after I unplugged, it said 130 miles, without having even opened the car door. I don't really pay much attention to the GOM anymore, but I bet it's happened other times. Often, if I don't fully charge, the app will show a lower battery percentage than after I unplug. For example, it will say 75% on the app while charging, and if I unplug immediately after that, it will be at 79%. But that only happens sometimes. Other times it's accurate. I've also noticed it will say "All Good" sometimes when I haven't locked the car in my garage. Maybe it has to do with app updates?

 

[polyphonic]

From what I understand battery measurements are not an exact science, or at least they are not as accurate as we might think. The site Battery University contains a trove of information, if you want to dig into it further.

The car could also have been sitting on the threshold of 165 and 164 kms. Electronics systems such as battery conditioning or the DC to DC converter could have pushed it past that threshold. Or going back to the GOM itself... it's truly that bad. Could have been some dopey ICE-centric programming. The app presents another possible failure point.

Having owned several electrics now, the behavior is totally normal. The only thing that might give me cause for concern would be an inexplicable jump in actual SoC (+/- >3%). Even then, the answer would be a full charge/discharge for cell balancing. Likely a rare occurrence.

 

[azausa]

For me, the app is not entirely reliable. One time after charging, the GOM on the app said I had 135 miles range (which itself is odd), but after I unplugged, it said 130 miles, without having even opened the car door. I don't really pay much attention to the GOM anymore, but I bet it's happened other times. Often, if I don't fully charge, the app will show a lower battery percentage than after I unplug. For example, it will say 75% on the app while charging, and if I unplug immediately after that, it will be at 79%. But that only happens sometimes. Other times it's accurate. I've also noticed it will say "All Good" sometimes when I haven't locked the car in my garage. Maybe it has to do with app updates?

That is what I have observed. Would really be interested in the algorithm that comes out with these results and the musings of the designer who delivered this “feature”.


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[Greencarguy]

So I top-up the SE last night and woke up and looked at the MINI app to tell me that the SE is fully charged and I have 165km. So I went to the garage to unplug the car and noticed that the SE on the dash told me yup, 100% charged but I have 164km range; and I checked the MINI app and yup, I do only have 164km.

Did I just lost 1km by unplugging the SE?

Also, the brochure said 233km based on WLTP; I have never seen 200km on my dash; is it bec the SE is defaulted to Mid mode? I have always driven in Mid mode; have not driven yet though beyond a 60km radius.

If I have 164km from a full charge, using Mid mode with AC on and nav on and music on and I want to go for a 140 km drive with an elevation of 600metres and wind gusts of 26kph, will I have 20% battery left still at destination?

My GOM is also wildly inaccurate. Here’s how I approach it. Most of the time I don’t drive near the full range, so I charge it each night and go about my day. To road trip it, just fast charge about every 80 miles, but only fast charge until the charge speed slows down around 90% capacity. If you are cutting it close, say 120 miles d trip, just pop in for a 10 min fast charge along the way somewhere. 10 minutes is worth it not not stress.

 

[azausa]

My GOM is also wildly inaccurate. Here’s how I approach it. Most of the time I don’t drive near the full range, so I charge it each night and go about my day. To road trip it, just fast charge about every 80 miles, but only fast charge until the charge speed slows down around 90% capacity. If you are cutting it close, say 120 miles d trip, just pop in for a 10 min fast charge along the way somewhere. 10 minutes is worth it not not stress.

Thank you very much, @Grenncarguy; really appreciate the tip. The road trip is what is concerning me; I am planning a 110km / 68 mile with an elevation gain of 600meters / 1,968ft with wind gusts of 26kph. Will take your advice and top up to max of 90% as soon as I get off the hill before proceeding and going back top up again to max of 90% before going up the hill.


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[Greencarguy]

Thank you very much, @Grenncarguy; really appreciate the tip. The road trip is what is concerning me; I am planning a 110km / 68 mile with an elevation gain of 600meters / 1,968ft with wind gusts of 26kph. Will take your advice and top up to max of 90% as soon as I get off the hill before proceeding and going back top up again to max of 90% before going up the hill.


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Once you do the trip a couple times your confidence will improve. If it is 68 miles total you should be fine. If it’s 68 miles there, you will want to charge a bit. Going up a mountain and then back down is easy compared to rolling hills. If you make it there with 50% charge (or even 40%) you will make it back.

 

[Puppethead]

Most of the time I don’t drive near the full range, so I charge it each night and go about my day.

I just took a short 6-mile drive for the day, and the next day the GOM showed I only had 80 miles range, which was nonsense since I had 99% SoC. It really does get influenced by your last trip and calculates poorly.

 

[azausa]

Once you do the trip a couple times your confidence will improve. If it is 68 miles total you should be fine. If it’s 68 miles there, you will want to charge a bit. Going up a mountain and then back down is easy compared to rolling hills. If you make it there with 50% charge (or even 40%) you will make it back.

It is 68miles one way, but I have 3 x charging stations along the way, with the 1st charging station at the bottom of the hill. Will keep an eye on the SOC. Thanks heaps, @Greencarguy.


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