Lug nuts, wheel studs

David in TN

David in TN

Well-Known Member
I rotate my tires at each Maintenance Minder suggestion.

1. Jack up the rear of the car and swap tires from side-to-side.
2. Jack up left side and swap front-to-rear.
3. Repeat on right side.

I remove lug nuts with a battery-powered impact wrench.

I install lug nuts by hand threading them on "at least" two full turns, then using a cheap battery-powered drill with a socket adapter, I tighten them with the drill (about 20 ft-lbs.)
After lowering the car, I torque all lug nuts to 80 ft-lbs.

NOW...

When rotating a while back, I had a lug nut on the right-rear get stuck. Then I had two that wouldn't tighten properly. After physically breaking them off (so I could replace them) and doing some examination, it appears that the studs themselves have "s t r e t c h e d" somehow. The next rotation, I experience the same with the left-rear.

I have now replaced all wheel studs and lug nuts on the rear of my Clarity (I'm about 77k miles.) There seems to not be any issues with the front ones... yet. I purchased nuts/studs at O'Reilly and Advance Auto, and they were the same part numbers at both places.

Replacing them is fairly easy if you can get the brake caliper bolts to come loose. :-)
 
That sounds like a real pain. I will be rotating tires soon, but from your experience, it seems like there is little I could do other than cross my fingers.

For MANY years, it was my practice to apply anti-seize compound to wheel lugs. I have read that this is not a good idea because it has an impact on the designed torque setpoint so I have not done this on the Clarity. Maybe a little anti-sieze is not a bad idea?
 
MrFixit said:
For MANY years, it was my practice to apply anti-seize compound to wheel lugs. I have read that this is not a good idea because it has an impact on the designed torque setpoint so I have not done this on the Clarity. Maybe a little anti-sieze is not a bad idea?
Click to expand...

Torque settings are given for dry threads unless otherwise specified. Anti-seize or grease/oil can cause the bolt/stud to stretch if the specified dry torque is applied. Not a good idea.

I use roughly the same technique as David: electric impact wrench on very low setting, but then I go up in 20 ft/lb stages in a cross pattern until proper torque is reached. No problems to date doing it that way.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Torque settings are given for dry threads unless otherwise specified. Anti-seize or grease/oil can cause the bolt/stud to stretch if the specified dry torque is applied. Not a good idea.
Click to expand...
I understand this... What always seems to happen is the lugs rust over time. Then, you are not really getting the proper dry torque either (because of the extra friction due to the corrosion). This results in an error in the other direction.

Maybe it is best to not use any grease / anti-seize, but to always make it a point to wire brush the studs if there is any evidence of corrosion.
 
I also had a rear stud snap off. I always use a torque wrench when I install the lug nuts. I rotate my tires every oil change and this happened the last time I rotated them. I had about 65k miles at that point. I used an air hammer to press out the stud. It was a definite pain and I can't explain how or why it happened. I have seen many cross threaded studs snap but I know mine wasn't cross threaded or over torqued. This is definitely very strange. I will be sure to post again in this thread if I snap another one in the future.
 
80 ft-lb shouldnt stretch the stud so much. Is it possible the wheel wasn't seated correctly and 1 of the stud/lug nut was tighter then the rest?
 
megreyhair said:
80 ft-lb shouldnt stretch the stud so much. Is it possible the wheel wasn't seated correctly and 1 of the stud/lug nut was tighter then the rest?
Click to expand...
I always snug the lug nuts down using a battery powered impact that is set to the lowest setting. I then do the final torque with a torque wrench. The wheel is seated properly before I use the torque wrench.
 
Casey Martin said:
I always snug the lug nuts down using a battery powered impact that is set to the lowest setting. I then do the final torque with a torque wrench. The wheel is seated properly before I use the torque wrench.
Click to expand...
My pro mechanic friend scoffed at me, but I bought an 80 lb-ft torque stick to use with my electric impact wrench when installing the lug nuts. It appears the torque stick stops just shy of 80 lb-ft, which I like because I want to use my torque wrench to set the final torque.
 
Bought my replacement tires at my Honda dealer. I get free tire replacement for the life of the tires. I have more enjoyable things to do than rotate tires.
 
Groves Cooke said:
I get free tire replacement for the life of the tires
Click to expand...
Oops - I think you meant to say free tire "rotation". Free tire replacement would be quite the thing !!!
Although not always enjoyable, some of us have a distrust of dealer competancy, and this motivates us to DIY.
 
MrFixit said:
I understand this... What always seems to happen is the lugs rust over time. Then, you are not really getting the proper dry torque either (because of the extra friction due to the corrosion). This results in an error in the other direction.

Maybe it is best to not use any grease / anti-seize, but to always make it a point to wire brush the studs if there is any evidence of corrosion.
Click to expand...
Where i worked at before, we were trained to put a little oil in each stud after lug nuts are removed. Seemed to work great.
 
neal adkins said:
Where i worked at before, we were trained to put a little oil in each stud after lug nuts are removed. Seemed to work great.
Click to expand...

Again, that likely resulted in too much torque applied. In real life I'm sure the engineers allowed for a VERY large margin of error in their specs, so likely no harm no foul.

Still, best practice would be that IF you decided to oil the threads, to drop the torque applied slightly. Since its a guess how much would be appropriate, probably safest to keep the threads clean and dry and use the manufacturer's specs.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Again, that likely resulted in too much torque applied. In real life I'm sure the engineers allowed for a VERY large margin of error in their specs, so likely no harm no foul.

Still, best practice would be that IF you decided to oil the threads, to drop the torque applied slightly. Since its a guess how much would be appropriate, probably safest to keep the threads clean and dry and use the manufacturer's specs.
Click to expand...
 
Wierd. Never heard of that before. Should I get some spares incase mine get streched? Where do i buy?

edd
 
We bought tires with free rotation service and the mechanics were putting the lug nuts on with an impact wrench as opposed to threading them by hand initially.
They ended up double threading the lug bolts on two wheels distorting the threads enough that I couldn't even get the nuts off.
Neither could they, so they paid for the dealership to replace the lug bolts on 2 hubs.
Not saying that happened here, but something to be careful of.
I had to look closely to see the double threading and it became harder to thread the nuts on and off until they began seizing.
 
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