VW ID. 4 remarkably consistent charging curve

Domenick

Domenick

Well-Known Member
The VW ID.4 may not have the highest peak kW for charging. Still it doesn't do so badly because it has pumps a high rate of kW for a higher percentage of the time. Interestingly, it is also very consistent. Check out this post and video where we charge the car from empty to full and compare its charging curve with charging sessions from two other ID. 4.

 
Domenick said:
The VW ID.4 may not have the highest peak kW for charging. Still it doesn't do so badly because it has pumps a high rate of kW for a higher percentage of the time. Interestingly, it is also very consistent. Check out this post and video where we charge the car from empty to full and compare its charging curve with charging sessions from two other ID. 4.
Click to expand...

What amazes me is that they get these charging curves in the winter. When I charged the Kona in the winter, the charging curve was absolutely awful - sometimes a peak charge rate of 39kW. I went out of my way to go to a free 50kW charger - otherwise the per-minute charges that were in effect at the time would have eaten me alive.
 
We bought our ID4 on June 24th this year. We thought it would be a fun road trip car to take to San Diego from Phoenix area and stop in Yuma. We have had nothing but trouble charging at the Electrify America station in Chandler and Tempe. Out of maybe 12 or 15 times to the station (we were out of town in July) all but 1 of them had had issues and I had to call into the support team. Each time they are able to get me going, sometimes it's a 5 minute hold and once it was 20 minutes. The station is 3 miles from our house.

It has been hot here in Arizona of course. They like to blame the heat. It has been as hot as 111 when I tried a couple times and I was sweating because this station has no shade whatsoever. The nozzles were so hot yesterday I had to drop it like a hot potato. Most times we had to move from pump 1 to another pump because it shuts off. It has been so frustrating. Luckily I only work part time. This would not be good for someone on a tight work schedule.

Today it started out charging at 125 kwh and within a few minutes it was down to 33. I called in and leave comments and they say they are putting in a work order. Seeing that it happened at a different station this weekend, I would say it might be the car. I called my service advisor and he wants me to leave the car in for 5 days.

We were wanting to use the free 3 year charging, but this has been ridiculous wasting sometimes 1 to 1.5 hours to get a partial charge enough to get by. I have been to the station 3 days in a row. I hope they make it right. We are looking at home chargers also.
 
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
We bought our ID4 on June 24th this year. We thought it would be a fun road trip car to take to San Diego from Phoenix area and stop in Yuma. We have had nothing but trouble charging at the Electrify America station in Chandler and Tempe. Out of maybe 12 or 15 times to the station (we were out of town in July) all but 1 of them had had issues and I had to call into the support team. Each time they are able to get me going, sometimes it's a 5 minute hold and once it was 20 minutes. The station is 3 miles from our house.

It has been hot here in Arizona of course. They like to blame the heat. It has been as hot as 111 when I tried a couple times and I was sweating because this station has no shade whatsoever. The nozzles were so hot yesterday I had to drop it like a hot potato. Most times we had to move from pump 1 to another pump because it shuts off. It has been so frustrating. Luckily I only work part time. This would not be good for someone on a tight work schedule.

Today it started out charging at 125 kwh and within a few minutes it was down to 33. I called in and leave comments and they say they are putting in a work order. Seeing that it happened at a different station this weekend, I would say it might be the car. I called my service advisor and he wants me to leave the car in for 5 days.

We were wanting to use the free 3 year charging, but this has been ridiculous wasting sometimes 1 to 1.5 hours to get a partial charge enough to get by. I have been to the station 3 days in a row. I hope they make it right. We are looking at home chargers also.
Click to expand...
How many miles do you usually drive in a day? You might be able to add all the electricity you need just using the portable charge cord that came with the car.
Personally, that's all I've used for the past couple years I've had my EV and have never had a problem. I only travel 40 miles a day at most, though.

Always good to have a more powerful wall unit at the house to take advantage of that great onboard 11 kW charger in your ID. 4, though, when you need it.
 
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
Today it started out charging at 125 kwh and within a few minutes it was down to 33. I called in and leave comments and they say they are putting in a work order. Seeing that it happened at a different station this weekend, I would say it might be the car. I called my service advisor and he wants me to leave the car in for 5 days.
Click to expand...

I have seen this myself - my own theory is that the cable cooling system either fails or is unable to keep up, and the charger lowers the power. The times I have had this problem are on afternoons of unusually hot days. Earlier in the day when things tend to be cooler I haven't seen this.

I really wish there were some diagnostic data that was available - either through the EA app, or on the screen of the car. Something that would give you a log that shows the progress of the charging session along with an explanation of any power reductions.
 
Domenick said:
How many miles do you usually drive in a day? You might be able to add all the electricity you need just using the portable charge cord that came with the car.
Personally, that's all I've used for the past couple years I've had my EV and have never had a problem. I only travel 40 miles a day at most, though.

Always good to have a more powerful wall unit at the house to take advantage of that great onboard 11 kW charger in your ID. 4, though, when you need it.
Click to expand...
Some days it's 50 or 60, because we make a round trip 25 miles each about twice a week. Some days only 10 or so. So do you mean the slow charger, I was told it takes 4 days to charge the car, or do you just top off every night?
 
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
Some days it's 50 or 60, because we make a round trip 25 miles each about twice a week. Some days only 10 or so. So do you mean the slow charger, I was told it takes 4 days to charge the car, or do you just top off every night?
Click to expand...
Yes, the slow charger.
So, it seems like you can easily get by on the slow charger. Though you'll bring the battery down some amount a couple times a week, you'll be able to make up for that on the days you don't. I don't think you'll even drop below half-charged.

I'd still consider getting the more powerful home wall unit installed, because it may be more convenient for you, but the slow charger should be fine.
 
Ok, thanks. We may have to try that it Electrify America pumps don't work well. We were trying to get the "free" charge as advertised instead of using our home energy, but in time saved it would be worth it
 
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
Ok, thanks. We may have to try that it Electrify America pumps don't work well. We were trying to get the "free" charge as advertised instead of using our home energy, but in time saved it would be worth it
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Electrify America is improving, but clearly the situation where you're at is unacceptable. Stations really need to have some sort of canopy too, for heat and rain.

Let us know how it goes with charging at home.
 
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
The nozzles were so hot yesterday I had to drop it like a hot potato.
Click to expand...
If you are in a pinch, you could also try Kyle's cold towel trick if you have a cooler with ice in it, the towel will cool the connector handle including the temperature sensors within it, and may increase the charging rate to normal:
EgyTgDyWoAAiVGC

Picture thanks to Kyle Conner, Out of Spec Studios: https://twitter.com/Out_of_Spec/status/1300576579794481152
 
Last edited:
DAVID DRUMMOND said:
We bought our ID4 on June 24th this year. We thought it would be a fun road trip car to take to San Diego from Phoenix area and stop in Yuma. We have had nothing but trouble charging at the Electrify America station in Chandler and Tempe. Out of maybe 12 or 15 times to the station (we were out of town in July) all but 1 of them had had issues and I had to call into the support team. Each time they are able to get me going, sometimes it's a 5 minute hold and once it was 20 minutes. The station is 3 miles from our house.

It has been hot here in Arizona of course. They like to blame the heat. It has been as hot as 111 when I tried a couple times and I was sweating because this station has no shade whatsoever. The nozzles were so hot yesterday I had to drop it like a hot potato. Most times we had to move from pump 1 to another pump because it shuts off. It has been so frustrating. Luckily I only work part time. This would not be good for someone on a tight work schedule.

Today it started out charging at 125 kwh and within a few minutes it was down to 33. I called in and leave comments and they say they are putting in a work order. Seeing that it happened at a different station this weekend, I would say it might be the car. I called my service advisor and he wants me to leave the car in for 5 days.

We were wanting to use the free 3 year charging, but this has been ridiculous wasting sometimes 1 to 1.5 hours to get a partial charge enough to get by. I have been to the station 3 days in a row. I hope they make it right. We are looking at home chargers also.
Click to expand...
 
I’m also in Arizona and having lots of issues with the EA chargers here in Buckeye.

In general if is not charging over 70kwh I move the car and lately getting 120 kWh.

Last time had the chance to speak with a contractor servicing the station and basically said the cooling is the main issue although it doesn’t make much sense for me.

After watching a video of a charging station in Germany I do have hope this will be the standard here shortly.
 
Dan Dumitriu said:
Last time had the chance to speak with a contractor servicing the station and basically said the cooling is the main issue although it doesn’t make much sense for me.
Click to expand...

The chargers have a liquid coolant that circulates through the cables. I have suspected for a while that if the cooling system fails or is overwhelmed, that the charger will reduce power to a safe level - perhaps around 30kW or so. Since moving chargers oftentimes seems to help, my hunch is that the cooling just failed for some reason.
 
I have a feeling that these are more teething issues like sensors calibration… liquid cooling failing in a high amperage charger sounds dangerous.

To me it looks like EA is focused on quick expansion instead of quality control, but I was always able to add 40kw within 30 mins or so… as long you are able to switch stations.
 
Dan Dumitriu said:
I have a feeling that these are more teething issues like sensors calibration… liquid cooling failing in a high amperage charger sounds dangerous.
Click to expand...

There exist low-conductivity coolants, for use in proximity to higher voltages. My Kona used such a thing - the instructions were quite clear that you were to never add water to it like you would for a traditional glycol coolant.

If the system is designed well, fluid cooling itself isn't a problem. Virtually every EV these days has liquid cooling of the battery pack. Tesla V3 chargers also have liquid cooled cables, so the idea isn't conceptually flawed, but the EA/ABB implementation might be.

If this is where the problem is, there could be a couple of potential places where it fails. A fluid pump failure for one. Assuming they don't use some sort of freon-based refrigerant, there would need to be a radiator of some sort plus a fan. If the fan fails or the radiator gets plugged up with debris, it could also lessen the ability to exhaust heat. Or maybe it is a sensor problem. Kyle's trick of using a wet rag on a charger handle works with Tesla as it keeps the handle a bit cooler.
 
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