With PHEV being discontinued....Who's looking at changing?

[Kerbe]

Perhaps something was lost in translation.

Honda's most efficient 2L 4-cylinder engine is capable of about 34 mpg (approx. 7L/100kM). Honda's most efficient hybrid system (with the same 1.5L 4-cyl in the Clarity PHEV) is capable of 52 mpg. So I'm guessing, short running on magical unicorn urine instead of gasoline, that 181 figure must be an MPGE-equivalent.

When I drain a tank of fuel and empty the battery, my Clarity estimates around 68 MPG.

China is still using the "wishful thinking" NEDC cycle to determine mileage - so the numbers listed could very well be off by 20-30% (as opposed to the more accurate EPA or WLTP cycles).

 

[NocEdit]

With PHEV being discontinued....Who's looking at changing to another vehicle, whether it be a a PHEV or BEV?

I'm concerned about the future resale value now. Before, even though most dealerships no longer had the vehicles, you could still order them. I do realize that federal law forces manufacturers to carry parts for 10 years, but resale value will be impacted now.

If you are looking at changing vehicles, which ones are you looking at?

Or do you just plan to keep your vehicle and enjoy it for 10+ years?

We love our clarity and honestly, as of now, plan on keeping it. What a great car!

I honestly don't feel like resale value will be hurt much. Resale value right now is crappy if you buy a TOURING 2021 clarity hybrid. Because of the tax incentives of like $9K.. and the dealer incentives in CA of $5-6K off MSRP. No one in their right mind would buy a used clarity plug in with even only 1 mile on it for more than $22K. Why when you can go to a dealer the past 2 years and get one after tax incentives in CA for about $22K pre-tax.

Now, there's no option to buy new after August models sell out this year. Should actually help the used market for Clarity plug ins.

 

[Landshark]

No one in their right mind would buy a used clarity plug in with even only 1 mile on it for less than $22K.

Less than or more than?

 

[Landshark]

When I drain a tank of fuel and empty the battery, my Clarity estimates around 68 MPG.

The claimed range of ~340 miles for a full battery and a full tank of fuel works out to ~48mpg. That’s 42mpg on gas and 47 EV miles. The computer is optimistic by about 10%. I’ve averaged 36mpg at speeds of 75-80mph, throw in another 40 miles, at best, at those speeds and it’s below 42mpg, including the electric range. Those figures and your 68mpg are all meaningless.

Maybe the car in the article goes 100km on 1.3l of gas and a full charge. That’s a criminally stupid metric, but who knows?

 

[NocEdit]

Less than or more than?

Corrected .... I bought my clarity 2 years ago and got $6k off MSRP... then $9k in CA rebates. Unfortunately, I got backed into at 5mph 6 months into owning my clarity... and it caused $10k in damage. So now my resale value sucks even worse than most even though it was fixed like new. (Insurance companies should really pay diminished value claims on all autos.... it’s insane how much you can lose in value).

Thankfully I’ll be keeping my clarity for 8 more years and getting my wife an EV this summer. Don’t want two total BEV vehicles in the household just yet. It’s a toss up between the VW Id4 and the Tesla model 3. Need to test drive both... but I really like the Id4 on first blush.

 

[Landshark]

I bought my clarity 2 years ago and got $6k off MSRP... then $9k in CA rebates.

We did about the same, 2 years ago this August. $5K Honda discount, $7500 Fed credit and a $2500 rebate from Oregon, for a net cost of ~$23K on a Touring model, and no sales tax.

We plan to keep it until the wheels fall off. There’s nothing available to replace it and I’d likely not just go out and buy something for the sake of having something newer, or whatever compels people to buy a new car every few years. We have a Jeep Grand Cherokee to tow behind the motorhome and a 3/4-ton truck for the dirty work. All paid in full.

The Rivian is the only compelling vehicle as it is reportedly flat towable, if and when one actually gets pooped out of a factory. I don’t see dropping $70K on a BEV to replace a perfectly good luxury Jeep and it is unlikely to be as capable as the existing truck.

 

[NocEdit]

There is one big counterargument for this...

Close to half of all drivers do not (and will not) have the means to conveniently charge at home.
These include people who live in apartments, condos, many townhouses, etc.

If you were in this situation where you 'always' had to charge on the road instead of 'rarely', then perhaps your very positive view of EV adoption might be different.

I'm with you (and likely a vast majority of current EV, PHEV drivers) who are very happy (and somewhat lucky) to be able to charge at home.

I would say with the stratospheric rise in home prices…. Only 45-50% of the population will be able to afford a stand alone home with a dedicated charger in the US. I say this because I believe the homeowner rate includes condo living which don’t have enough charging infrastructure to accommodate its residents. Mass adoption of EV cars in anything above 50% of the population won’t happen until solid state batteries become affordable and standard sometime beyond 2030. But homeowners will flock to EVs in the next 5-10 years… especially in Temperate liberal areas.


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[Landshark]

I would say with the stratospheric rise in home prices…. Only 45-50% of the population will be able to afford a stand alone home with a dedicated charger in the US. I say this because I believe the homeowner rate includes condo living which don’t have enough charging infrastructure to accommodate its residents. Mass adoption of EV cars in anything above 50% of the population won’t happen until solid state batteries become affordable and standard sometime beyond 2030. But homeowners will flock to EVs in the next 5-10 years… especially in Temperate liberal areas.

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The homeownership rate in the US for 2020 was 65.8%. Nearly 2/3rds of Americans already own, or are paying off a mortgage on, a home. It isn’t as though everyone is shopping for a home and only 40% of them can afford one. If we were to consider 40% of the 34% of Americans who currently do not own a home, as being unable to afford a home, we’re down to 13.6%.

There’s a tremendous amount of questionable journalism and reporting from a variety of sources these days and quite frequently, numbers get spewed out that are largely meaningless, but make for catchy headlines.

There are 120v and sometimes 240V charging opportunities available at numerous apartment and condo complexes. Additionally, there are workplace and public charging stations available at more locations every day. There are also more obstacles to widespread adoption that the ones you mentioned.

 

[NocEdit]

The homeownership rate in the US for 2020 was 65.8%. Nearly 2/3rds of Americans already own, or are paying off a mortgage on, a home. It isn’t as though everyone is shopping for a home and only 40% of them can afford one. If we were to consider 40% of the 34% of Americans who currently do not own a home, as being unable to afford a home, we’re down to 13.6%.

There’s a tremendous amount of questionable journalism and reporting from a variety of sources these days and quite frequently, numbers get spewed out that are largely meaningless, but make for catchy headlines.

There are 120v and sometimes 240V charging opportunities available at numerous apartment and condo complexes. Additionally, there are workplace and public charging stations available at more locations every day. There are also more obstacles to widespread adoption that the ones you mentioned.

I personally see with my own eyes how many people park in the street in many neighborhoods and have their garages overloaded with other junk. Also, not to get political, but 50% of the homeowners reside in colder red states who will take a lot of convincing before they buy an EV.

I stand by my slower EV adoption rate. Most practical people buy 1 car every 8 years.

The report shows that electric vehicles (EVs) currently make up only 3% of car sales worldwide. By 2025 electric vehicles (EVs) will reach 10% of global passenger vehicle sales, growing to 28% in 2030 and 58% by 2040.


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[Landshark]

I personally see with my own eyes how many people park in the street in many neighborhoods and have their garages overloaded with other junk.

A bunch of s#it in the garage doesn’t mean they can’t charge at home. I’ve seen the loaded garages too, and a Level 2 charger attached to the outside of the garage.

Spare us the Red and Blue garbage, please.
Pretty much any large metropolitan area leans Left, Blue, Liberal, Progressive or whatever happy face we want to slap on it. Boston, NY, Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, Portland, to name a few.

There are good reasons other than politics to not buy an EV where there are cold winters.

 

[J Wong]

Here in California, Newsom wanted this state to be 100% renewable energy 2035, I THINK it is 2027, California will stop selling ALL NEW ICE Vehicles in the state. They are limiting the sales of Natural Gas Appliances so stoves, ovens, and water heaters are ALL electric. We have rolling blackouts due to the demand of AC in hot summer days now, can you imagine what it will be like with all the EXTRA charging of electric vehicles? What happens when you're charging and they have a 3hr - 6hr black out? We Californians are screwed, because by name we will be the state that is 100% renewable energy, but we will most likely BUY electricity from fossil fuel production from other states.

 

[Landshark]

I THINK it is 2027, California will stop selling ALL NEW ICE Vehicles in the state.

Can you provide any information to validate this statement?

 

[Mark W]

Well, let me tell you what just happened to me today: I was just getting out of my car at a supermarket lot in Las Vegas when this guy just driving by suddenly stops, rolls down his window and yelled: "SIR, WHAT A CAR! WHERE DID YOU GET IT? CONGRATULATIONS, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT BEFORE!"
I got shocked and choked so I could only mumbled a "thanks man!". Now what else apart from lack of marketing could generate a reaction like that? Out of California people have no idea of its existence. BTW, I've living in Vegas for five months and haven't seen a single Clarity around, although I know they had two for sale at a dealer in Henderson until recently.

There is no question that very few people have heard of a Honda Clarity. It's because they are not popular. The question was, would they have been much more popular if they were marketed more? Well, the more you market something, then yes, they should sell a little better. Teslas are wildly popular. They don't advertise at all though. I still stand by the fact though that demand for PHEV sedans is just not there, and it would have been a mistake for Honda to market the car more for the reasons I stated previously.
I don't think I have ever had anyone say anything to me about my Clarity, positive or negative. I think part of that is that the car does not stick out as electric. In my Nissan Leaf I used to have, I used to get questions now and then because it screamed "I'm electric".
Just last week, I went to get tires for my Clarity in a popular tire shop, and when the guy asked me for Make and Model, he did a double take when I said Honda Clarity. He had never heard of it.
Regardless of all this, I really like my Clarity. It is coming off lease soon and I will be buying it and keeping it. My wife drives it mostly, and she says it is her favorite car that she has ever owned. The only thing she doesn't like is when it runs out of charge and it is driven in local traffic. The disconnect between the engine noise and power is disconcerting to her. Our other car is a Hyundai Ioniq Electric, but the range of that car is only 125 miles so we need a gas enabled car for the longer trips we take.

 

[J Wong]

Can you provide any information to validate this statement?

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/g...-in-californias-fight-against-climate-change/

Governor Newsom Announces California Will Phase Out Gasoline-Powered Cars & Drastically Reduce Demand for Fossil Fuel in California’s Fight Against Climate Change
Published: Sep 23, 2020

Executive order directs state to require that, by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California be zero-emission vehicles

Transportation currently accounts for more than 50 percent of California’s Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Zero-emission vehicles are a key part of California’s clean, innovation economy – already California’s second largest global export market

Order also directs the state to take more actions to tackle the dirtiest oil extraction and support workers and job retention and creation as we make a just transition away from fossil fuels

" I have to look further, because I seem to remember reading about an Exec Order that will ban the sale of NEW ICE Vehicles 2027. Allowing only the sales of used gasoline powered vehicles"

 

[Landshark]

Thanks. But that’s just an Executive Order that sets some goals. And it certainly doesn’t include ALL vehicles.

They’ve set goals to end homelessness too. Have you been to Southern California lately?

 

[rodeknyt]

Thanks. But that’s just an Executive Order that sets some goals. And it certainly doesn’t include ALL vehicles.

They’ve set goals to end homelessness too. Have you been to Southern California lately?

In California, executive orders issued by Emperor Newsom are even greater than the law. If he says no more ICE vehicles, then that's how it is.

 

[NocEdit]

A bunch of s#it in the garage doesn’t mean they can’t charge at home. I’ve seen the loaded garages too, and a Level 2 charger attached to the outside of the garage.

Spare us the Red and Blue garbage, please.
Pretty much any large metropolitan area leans Left, Blue, Liberal, Progressive or whatever happy face we want to slap on it. Boston, NY, Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, Portland, to name a few.

There are good reasons other than politics to not buy an EV where there are cold winters.

Not sure what your arguing for or against? Do you think 50% of vehicles on the road will be electric before 2030? I’m pro-electric car… I own a clarity and plan to buy a full BEV End of summer as our 2nd car. I’m also a realist and see many factors… political, economic, and infrastructure wise slowing mass adoption down.


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[Landshark]

Not sure what your arguing for or against? Do you think 50% of vehicles on the road will be electric before 2030? I’m pro-electric car… I own a clarity and plan to buy a full BEV End of summer as our 2nd car. I’m also a realist and see many factors… political, economic, and infrastructure wise slowing mass adoption down.

I see no value in labeling people red or blue and then projecting our beliefs about what vehicle they might buy.

I don’t give much thought to what percent of vehicles will be powered by a certain fuel by a particular date. Now that you’ve brought it up, I believe that anyone who thinks that 50% of the vehicles on the road, let’s say in the US, will be electric before 2030, hasn’t given the subject much thought.

 

[lessismore]

Not sure what your arguing for or against? Do you think 50% of vehicles on the road will be electric before 2030? I’m pro-electric car… I own a clarity and plan to buy a full BEV End of summer as our 2nd car. I’m also a realist and see many factors… political, economic, and infrastructure wise slowing mass adoption down.


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that's just landshark being landshark - a bit bored and seek any opportunity to engage a conversation. ;-)

 

[Landshark]

that's just landshark being landshark - a bit bored and seek any opportunity to engage a conversation. ;-)

And sometimes actually adding a meaningful contribution to the conversation.

Take a look at the topic. How do political jabs benefit the conversation?