The Gadgeteer
Active Member
It is sincerely possible the Clarity was a compliance car sold at a loss. Even if it was a slight loss, you can’t make up the difference by selling in greater volume.
With PHEV being discontinued....Who's looking at changing?
- Thread starter RoysHonda
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Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Back to marketing, if Honda had promoted the car with advertising it definitely would have sold a bunch more cars.
I don’t doubt they have better ad writers than me, but remember the CERTS ads? “CERTS is a candy mint. CERTS is a breath mint. STOP! You’re both right…CERTS is two, two, TWO mints in one!”
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How about “The amazing and flexible Honda Clarity. An electric car when you want it, a gas-electric hybrid when you need it. Come drive one today and find out what a remarkable car it is!” I’m convinced they could have improved sales by at least an order of magnitude - if they had wanted to. But aye, there’s the rub!
I don’t doubt they have better ad writers than me, but remember the CERTS ads? “CERTS is a candy mint. CERTS is a breath mint. STOP! You’re both right…CERTS is two, two, TWO mints in one!”
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How about “The amazing and flexible Honda Clarity. An electric car when you want it, a gas-electric hybrid when you need it. Come drive one today and find out what a remarkable car it is!” I’m convinced they could have improved sales by at least an order of magnitude - if they had wanted to. But aye, there’s the rub!
Sorry, but this is silly
There is infrastructure to fast charge on the road.
There are commonly available EVs with ranges of 250 miles
If all year you spend precisely zero time going to gas station, you can give up a small amount of time to charge on the road while travelling
EVs are here, now.
I personally anticipated serial hybrids taking over before EVs, but we have blown past that.
Is an EV less convenient on a long trip than an ICE vehicle?
Yes, but this is simply not the majority of what people do with their cars.
I thought this through before getting an EV, in the past 10 years, the number of trips I had made where I was not pulling a car hauling trailer[about 5 times] where I would have had to charge on the road?
5
Once every two years would I theoretically have to charge on the road.
Over my lifetime, yes I have driven long trips, but with a family one can no longer make cannonball runs of 24 hours straight driving. So if you are stopping every 2 1/2 hours for someone or other to pee, who cares if you are also charging, and that it takes a few minutes longer
Yes EVs are going to get better, but they are indeed 'here'
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
There is one big counterargument for this...
Close to half of all drivers do not (and will not) have the means to conveniently charge at home.
These include people who live in apartments, condos, many townhouses, etc.
If you were in this situation where you 'always' had to charge on the road instead of 'rarely', then perhaps your very positive view of EV adoption might be different.
I'm with you (and likely a vast majority of current EV, PHEV drivers) who are very happy (and somewhat lucky) to be able to charge at home.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Me, too.
I had envisioned electric vehicles with tiny, almost “emergency” backup gas generators, just big enough to provide a “limp home” (“limp to next charging station”?) mode when all else failed. Would go a long way to alleviating any vestigial “range anxiety” that many seem to fear.
But I think you’re right - we’ve probably leapfrogged the need for such transitional vehicles.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Only an analyst would try to come up with a figure for how analytical a group like this is !
Why would you suddenly start shopping for a different vehicle, simply because the one you’re driving will no longer be produced?
Put me in the “I’m not looking to change” group. The car is less than 2 years old, has 19K miles and there’s nothing available to replace it.
su_A_ve
Active Member
Will keep it until my Honda Care ends (7 years I think it was).
Yes, EVs are here, but to me, the Clarity was a better value over a straight Accord at the time I got it due to the Fed tax credit and Honda incentives. At the time, I didn't really see the cost savings of an Accord Hybrid. An EV was completely out of the question due to range anxiety, but a PHEV was very interesting since I could charge for free at work.
Today, there's nothing comparable out there that I could replace it with EV or PHEV for sub 25K after incentives.
Yes, EVs are here, but to me, the Clarity was a better value over a straight Accord at the time I got it due to the Fed tax credit and Honda incentives. At the time, I didn't really see the cost savings of an Accord Hybrid. An EV was completely out of the question due to range anxiety, but a PHEV was very interesting since I could charge for free at work.
Today, there's nothing comparable out there that I could replace it with EV or PHEV for sub 25K after incentives.
Kerbe
Well-Known Member
One of two things will need to happen before I move on from the Clarity: Either non-Tesla DC charging infrastructure will need to expand and improve its reliability or Aptera will need to succeed in producing its highly-efficient, ultra-long-range electric vehicle (I hold reservation #2705). Until then I have no reason to not continue driving this, now, "collector's item"!
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Does your final sentence need some fine tuning?
DaleL
Active Member
I think that the Clarity PHEV was a market test by Honda. Much of the hybrid technology is the same as in the Accord and now the CR-V hybrid vehicles. Honda advertised the Clarity PHEV when it debuted. I saw several advertisements which caused me to test drive one with my wife. I have been very happy with my choice. I like electric, but the cost of EVs are too high and the range too short. For example the Tesla Model 3 Long Range with the destination charge costs $50,000. Compared with my Clarity Touring, after the federal tax credit, which cost about $30,000 before discounts. I expect that in the next few years there will be far more, better, and less expensive EVs available. I'll keep my Clarity until I get the urge to buy a new vehicle. Heck, it could even be a Ford F-150 electric.
PHEV Newbie
Well-Known Member
The best evidence that Honda was selling the Clarity PHEV at a loss in North America was the price of the Japanese Clarity PHEV, which is essentially identical except for the right handed steering wheel and faster onboard charger. At the time, the Yen price was about US$50,000. That's not because cars are generally more expensive in the Japan or something funky with exchange rates. At the time, other Honda ICE Japanese equivalents were priced in Yen a bit lower than the US MSRP. If Honda really wanted a success, they would have put in a bigger ICE and correspondingly more powerful electric motor like Toyota did for the Rav4 Prime. There's plenty of room under the hood for that. That would reduce EV range and HV MPG a little but the greater HP and torque would make the Clarity a green high performance sedan instead of one that is sometimes strained. Heck, just read all the complaints in this forum about "angry bees". And these are from folks who really like the the Clarity.
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Lowell_Greenberg
Active Member
Yes- and they also strangled supply at the moment it was becoming more popular (late 2018).
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Personally, I want to get out of the Clarity. The used car market is out of control, and there is roughly 5 grand of equity in the lease of the car at the moment. I want to find another hybrid, It doesn’t necessarily need to be a PHEV but that would be nice. I was looking at the RAV4 Prime if lease deals get attractive enough (doubtful), or a Toyota Venza which seems to lease better for whatever reason.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
When we buy new, which is maybe 50% of the time, we can end up keeping things for a LONG time. We still have our 2005 Honda Element, though it’s been relegated to just occasional use as an airport car. My 1999 BMW K1200RS motorcycle will qualify for an antique tag soon, and my 2003 Buell Firebolt is not far behind. Our 2011 Ford Flex (used primarily to tow a travel trailer) and 2006 Honda Ridgeline (used primarily as a truck, duh) were bought lightly and well used, respectively.
Probably will not be keeping the Clarity for the long haul, though. This winter will mark 3 years of ownership, and we still love the car - it’s our daily driver with no mechanical issues over 54,000+ miles. Still, the EV landscape is changing so fast and we’re trying to stay abreast of all the new offerings, even to the point of having a $100 deposit on a Cybertruck. Hard to make predictions, especially about the future (!), but I see us transitioning to an EV in maybe 2 or 3 years. But even then it might make sense to keep the Clarity around for the occasional impromptu road trip where we don’t want to have to take charging into consideration.
Interesting times!
Probably will not be keeping the Clarity for the long haul, though. This winter will mark 3 years of ownership, and we still love the car - it’s our daily driver with no mechanical issues over 54,000+ miles. Still, the EV landscape is changing so fast and we’re trying to stay abreast of all the new offerings, even to the point of having a $100 deposit on a Cybertruck. Hard to make predictions, especially about the future (!), but I see us transitioning to an EV in maybe 2 or 3 years. But even then it might make sense to keep the Clarity around for the occasional impromptu road trip where we don’t want to have to take charging into consideration.
Interesting times!
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Chris Messer
Member
I will keep mine for a few more years , basically until I know what other PHEV or EV I want. Right now , there's nothing compelling to me to make the switch. The RAV4 is close , but no reason to justify the change.
Are dealers still adding $10K markup on the Rav4 Prime? I read Toyota planned to make only 5,000/year (what, they arent' confident people like 300-hp plug-in hybrids?). If that changes, perhaps you won't have to pay Tesla prices to get a Rav4 Prime.
fotomoto
Active Member
This one has been on my radar since the beginning and, yes, $5-10k markups are the norm putting them at $55-60k (less incentives) for the top of line model I’m interested in. The 5,000 for CARB states (basically just Cali) sold out immediately. Supposedly the next allotment for the entire US will only be 20,000. So, I’m not expecting to purchase one anytime soon. I did put in a reservation for a Maverick hybrid as it ticks off most of the same wants/needs as the RavPrime (except for the big one: a plug) but at half the price!
While 'many' people who live in an apartment, condo or townhouse do not have access to home charging, it is not all, or I would hazard a guess most.
As the percentage increases, more complexes will have facilities. I rented for years in suburbs and small cities, and only one apartment would have been even difficult to charge at home.
Add into that the number of employers offering explicit charging, or the possibility of charging. I have owned my own business for 31 years, and all of my locations would have been amenable to charging at work
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Agreed...
Of course, if a complex has (or adds) a facility, that can only work if a small percentage of their occupants have EV's. As EV's increase in popularity, many more stations are needed (maybe ultimately a station for every 5-10 vehicles?).
Charging at work will certainly help, and will be growing. Before retiring, I worked for a large employer (many thousands of people). They installed some free charging stations, but there were maybe a dozen of these. Completely inadequate for thousands of people when EV's become more common than hen's teeth !
In larger cities, street parking is kind of the norm. Many people do not have dedicated parking spots, never mind access to a street-based charging station. Again, in the end, maybe you would need a station for every 5-10 vehicles?