Mattsburgh
Active Member
There's a whole process, this thread covers everything: https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ll-200-hyundai-wants-buy-back-our-cars.11047/
For those involved in the Buyback program: what are your plans after?
- Thread starter Mattsburgh
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Toolworker
Well-Known Member
While waiting for my buyback to move along, there's nothing to do but gaze into my cloudy crystal ball and think about the future of the Kona EV, one of my top replacement candidates.
When Mach-E production gets to the point of dealers having floor inventory, the Kona EV will be a tough sell against it. The Mach-E is priced about the same as the 2021 Limited and Ultimate, and is larger and more feature-rich. The 2022 Kona EV eliminates the Ultimate trim level, and probably will lose the HUD, as the 2022 ICEs have. So perhaps Hyundai is recognizing that the Kona will no longer be feature-competitive and, with the Ioniq 5 coming, will position the 2022 as the economy EV.
Or maybe they will stop making it for North America, and just sell through the few already manufactured.
When Mach-E production gets to the point of dealers having floor inventory, the Kona EV will be a tough sell against it. The Mach-E is priced about the same as the 2021 Limited and Ultimate, and is larger and more feature-rich. The 2022 Kona EV eliminates the Ultimate trim level, and probably will lose the HUD, as the 2022 ICEs have. So perhaps Hyundai is recognizing that the Kona will no longer be feature-competitive and, with the Ioniq 5 coming, will position the 2022 as the economy EV.
Or maybe they will stop making it for North America, and just sell through the few already manufactured.
Wildeyed
Well-Known Member
You know I read frequently how the price for the Kona is "pretty much" the same as: take your pick from the Mach E or the Model 3 or Y and it is totally not true. Those cars exceed the Kona by $10k-20k depending on the trim levels. But comparing the very lowest trim of one with the highest trim of another is just ... inaccurate. There might be many reasons to choose one over the other but prices being "pretty much the same" is not one of them.
Zoomie71
New Member
Exactly. These cars are not the same and are, therefore, not comparable. The Model 3 is closest in size to the Kona Electric, of course. But, as soon as you start adding Long Range, etc, the price is far and above what you'll see on the Kona Electric.
Toolworker
Well-Known Member
That's fair, and you're right that trim levels vary widely.
In my particular shopping, I've focused in on the top of the line Kona Ultimate and one specific middle of the line Mach-E configuration that I consider comparable and similarly priced. There are higher end Mach-E's with all-wheel drive, more range and higher performance. But for someone comfortable with a Kona Ultimate, I don't think they're going to look at a $61,000 Mach-E GT AWD that does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds.
I've compared a 2021 Ultimate at MSRP $46,540 including destination charge to a Mach-E Premium at $48,700. The ranges are 258 vs. 230 miles. So the Mach-E is $2,160 more expensive and has 11% less range. I consider this "pretty much the same"; YMMV.
And I think that the Ultimate is not competitive with this particular Mach-E. The Mach-E is larger, has a ton more features, and OTA updates. The Kona is more efficient, has the HUD, and I find it more fun to drive. Side by side, I think most people would take the Mach-E.
hobbit
Well-Known Member
Not that it's relevant to buyback because mine is a different set of circumstances, I did more
thinking and poking around and concluded that the Kona really is near the top of the heap as
far as range for the buck. Especially in the lower-end SEL trim, which I stuck with for a slew of
reasons. And in my case I already had put the work and $ into model-specific accessories and
setting things up the way I wanted, so why start back at ground zero just to get an EV on the
road again? That may well have been my path forward in a buyback situation too.
_H*
thinking and poking around and concluded that the Kona really is near the top of the heap as
far as range for the buck. Especially in the lower-end SEL trim, which I stuck with for a slew of
reasons. And in my case I already had put the work and $ into model-specific accessories and
setting things up the way I wanted, so why start back at ground zero just to get an EV on the
road again? That may well have been my path forward in a buyback situation too.
_H*
Paul DeLeon
Active Member
Mach-E are a expensive and Ford ain't discounting. My lease was double for the Ford compared to my Kona.
The VWs are more reasonable but lack a heat pump. Plus they are buggy, I'm told. I keep coming back to the Kia Nero.
The VWs are more reasonable but lack a heat pump. Plus they are buggy, I'm told. I keep coming back to the Kia Nero.
ehatch
Active Member
Here is mine: My life has changed significantly since I bought the Kona. IF this defect hadn't happened or IF they were replacing my battery in a reasonable time frame, I'd be happy to keep my 2019 Kona Electric that I love... but given that those things aren't happening and given that I'm "starting over" again from square one, I'm almost certain I'm not going to buy another EV right now. One reason I just mentioned about my life changing in the past 2 years, but another is that I keep reading more about massive improvements in battery tech on the near horizon and I think maybe I'll wait just a little while for some of those to come out. I think within 5 years we're going to see cars charging in 5-10 minutes, or at least 80% in 5-10 minutes. (I mean if it's our Konas that's all we can charge anyway, amirite?thank you, I'll be here all week folks!)
Here's my analysis of the options:
- RAV4 Prime
- Pros: Great EV mode range of over 40 miles. Toyota typically has very high quality and reliability. Full Fed tax rebate of $7500 b/c the battery is so large (Ford and Hyundai will still get $6,000+ )
- Cons: Slow 3.3 kW charger is standard, have to pay extra for 6.6 and only available as package on top trim. Vehicle is very difficult to get. No wireless AA. RAV 4 actually mediocre reliability, esp. for Toyota. I think the car is kind of ugly.
- Ford Escape PHEV
- Pros: Very good EV Range of 38 miles. 6.6 kW (? maybe) charger standard. I had a Ford C-Max PHEV and it had excellent reliability, Sync 3 was a breeze, too.
- Cons: Car looks ok, a bit outdated though. No wireless AA. AWD not available on the PHEV version. Contrary to my personal experience with the Ford C-Max PHEV, the Escape in general has had terrible reliability.
- Hyundai Tucson PHEV
- Pros: Stunning looks inside and out. Good EV Range of 32 miles. 7.2 kW onboard charging standard on all trims. All new vehicle. AWD standard on all trims. Wireless AA avail. on smaller 8 in screen but not 10 in (hope for future software updates to fix that?). Best warranty of the 3 by far.
- Cons: All new vehicle (unknown reliability). Not as powerful as the Ford or Toyota, and less EV range than either.
Anyway, I suspect I'm in the minority here and most people are probably going to get another EV. Would be interested to hear what ones are at the top of your lists.
You have a tough decision with your life changes.You're not wrong about five year timeline for even more compelling BEVs. The 400 mile ones that don't require six figures to get into one.
I will stay BEV,I like the overall performance,and total cost of ownership. PHEV, you're going to have double the issue potentially due to the ICE and Li-ion components.I think you'll miss the BEV acceleration,torque for the most part,highway on ramp
Lookup Hyundai brake , engine fires. You will see what's going on with their late model ICE vehicles,sadly Tucsun is among them.
Toyota RAV4,I wouldn't want 3kW in 2021 and beyond.
Ford Escape isn't their C-Max which I think was built on a Euro.platform{?},and very good:range,and charging speed.Cargo area full of Li-ion not so much,if you're traveling, don't you want all the cargo available?it's reliability history may haunt you.
Most PHEVs have the transmission tunnel intruding into the cabin floor.
Then there's the Ioniq5,if you looked at its specs.,new platform.The RWD long range is about 77kW,and if you can locate a 350kW HPC,you can charge it in about 15 minutes from 10% to 80%.Also 800V, Kia EV6,77kW,about 300 mile range.eNiro appears to have faired better than its cousin,Kona electric.Both will likely use SK Li-ion.
NRH
Active Member
I haven't seen much discussion on here about the E-Niro as an alternative to the Kona. I never considered myself to be that into looks with cars, but maybe that's changed, as the Niro just doesn't excite me.
Nonetheless I just looked into the specs a bit more, to make sure I'm considering all the options (and some extra cargo space could be nice). I was surprised to see that the Niro EPA range rating is only 239 miles. That's with the same 64kwh battery and (I think) the same drive train. Is the Niro really that much less efficient? For us I think that's a deal breaker. With our Kona we can travel easily along the New England Interstates with the 258 mile range rating. I think it would be trickier with ~10% less. We'd be making more stops, certainly, and I think our last leg home we might need to stop at a 50kW charger, because getting from the last 150kw station to our house on 80% of 239 wouldn't be possible. (Now that I've used the EA stations a bunch, my patience for slower DC stations has worn pretty thin.)
Nonetheless I just looked into the specs a bit more, to make sure I'm considering all the options (and some extra cargo space could be nice). I was surprised to see that the Niro EPA range rating is only 239 miles. That's with the same 64kwh battery and (I think) the same drive train. Is the Niro really that much less efficient? For us I think that's a deal breaker. With our Kona we can travel easily along the New England Interstates with the 258 mile range rating. I think it would be trickier with ~10% less. We'd be making more stops, certainly, and I think our last leg home we might need to stop at a 50kW charger, because getting from the last 150kw station to our house on 80% of 239 wouldn't be possible. (Now that I've used the EA stations a bunch, my patience for slower DC stations has worn pretty thin.)
Toolworker
Well-Known Member
I looked at the 2019 Niro when I bought my Kona. I liked the car but the steering was a little stiff for me, and it lacked a number of features. I believe the 2020 added 10" display and high beam assist, but LED headlamps and Homelink are still aftermarket add-ins. I would miss my Ultimate's HUD.
I received this message attached to my monthly vehicle report which makes it sound like they have batteries available and will otify us end of June:
"2019 MODEL YEAR KONA EV OWNERS WILL BEGIN RECEIVING REMEDY NOW AVAILABLE NOTIFICATION LETTERS BEGINNING IN LATE JUNE 2021 AS BATTERY SUPPLY BECOMES READILY AVAILABLE FOR THEIR VEHICLE. ONCE OWNERS ARRIVE AT THE DEALERSHIP,DEALER WILL INSPECT AND IF NECESSARY, ORDER A REPLACEMENT BATTERY SYSTEM ASSEMBLY. A SOFTWARE UPDATE MAY ALSO BE NECESSARY. THIS PROCEDURE WILL BE PERFORMED AT NO CHARGE TO THE OWNER. 2020 MODEL YEAR OWNERS WILL RECEIVE A REMEDY NOT AVAILABLE LETTER UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE AS REMEDY FOR 2020 MODEL YEAR OWNERS IS CURRENTLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT. HYUNDAI RECOMMENDS YOU TO ADJUST AND MAINTAIN YOUR BATTERY'S 'MAX% CHARGE'LEVEL AT 80% AS A PRELIMINARY SAFETY MEASURE TO ENABLE YOU TO SAFELY DRIVEAND CHARGE YOUR VEHICLE AT HOME PRIOR TO THE REMEDY BEING PERFORMED. SEARCH YOUTUBE AND TYPE "SETTING THE MAXIMUM CHARGE LIMIT HYUNDAI" AND SELECT THE FIRST LINK THAT APPEARS OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL HYUNDAI DEALERSHIP FOR FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO ADJUST YOUR BATTERY'S 'MAX% CHARGE' LEVEL."
Wildeyed
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the difference is between '19s and 2020s that makes a battery replacement necessary in '19s but apparently optional in the affected 2020s?
* It's nice to see Hyundai U.S. keeping its customers informed. Come on Hyundai Canada, get it together!
Mattsburgh
Active Member
Yeah it looks like the RAV4 Prime will be it for me, already put down a deposit. Hey I didn't get your comment about "RAV4, I wouldn't want 3kW in 2021 and beyond" - can you clarify? The prime has a 18 kW battery and 42 miles of EV range.
Agree with you about the Tucson, they don't have very good reliability. However, the 2021 is an all new model so hard to compare directly, though on the other hand first year models do tend to have more issues (as we should ALL know lol). Also Hyundai's reliability has really improved over the years, they make pretty dependable cars for the most part, IMHO. So they're not as overwhelmingly consistent as Toyota, at least not yet, but who is? Anyway, with the Tucson when I weighed the plusses and minuses the minuses won out. (those being: the car is still not on sale in the US, I don't know when it will be and I need a replacement vehicle before my move in Sept., the old Tucson had bad reliability and the new one might be better but it's still brand new and unproven... so reliability will be a huge question mark).
Mattsburgh
Active Member
I think the Niro EV is an excellent choice. I tried really hard to convince myself to go with the PHEV version of the Niro, in fact, and I came close. But I just hate the red interior lights so much that I knew it would annoy me literally every time I drove the car at night. I know that is a stupid reason, believe me, but I can't change my opinion about it. But if you like the red or don't care, as I suspect most people are in that camp, I think it's a great choice. Slightly bigger than the Kona, hence the small reduction in range, but otherwise a very solid choice.
Mattsburgh
Active Member
Jennifer are you in the US? Canada? ... ? And you have a 2019 or 2020 Kona?
Toolworker
Well-Known Member
Please, people - add your location, along with vehicle type, to the location field of your profile. We often need that context to understand your posts and give appropriate advice.
MarshaH
New Member
Curious what others are thinking and planning. Let's assume for posts here that you'll end up accepting their offer. Obviously we all realize rejecting the offer and keeping the car is an option but I'm asking this question for those that do sell their cars back: what is your thought process on what you do next?
Here is mine: My life has changed significantly since I bought the Kona. IF this defect hadn't happened or IF they were replacing my battery in a reasonable time frame, I'd be happy to keep my 2019 Kona Electric that I love... but given that those things aren't happening and given that I'm "starting over" again from square one, I'm almost certain I'm not going to buy another EV right now. One reason I just mentioned about my life changing in the past 2 years, but another is that I keep reading more about massive improvements in battery tech on the near horizon and I think maybe I'll wait just a little while for some of those to come out. I think within 5 years we're going to see cars charging in 5-10 minutes, or at least 80% in 5-10 minutes. (I mean if it's our Konas that's all we can charge anyway, amirite?
Ok seriously though, I am moving this year and expect to have longer and more frequent road trips, and as such I've decided I think I'm going to go with a PHEV for the foreseeable future with the expectation that I'll probably go back to a full EV in 5-10 years - hopefully by then we'll have solid state batteries or something similar but if not I'll likely still be ready by then to go back to full EV.
Anyway, back to the PHEV options, I kind of started with the RAV 4 Prime, and then realized the Escape now also comes in a PHEV. But then I found out Hyundai is coming out with a PHEV Tucson and Santa Fe, too. I think I've settled on the Tucson PHEV ... if I can get one, of course.
Here's my analysis of the options:
The Tucson PHEV isn't available anywhere (in the US) yet but the Hybrid is and I drove one today. It looks inside like a way more luxurious and bigger vehicle than it is. But it drives like the mid sized SUV it actually is. The seat was one of the best I've ever sat in, and it went back like a mile, a boon for anyone with long legs. I really liked everything about it except the transmission shifting seemed pretty herky jerky to me, obviously that would at least be improved by the PHEV since a lot of city driving would have no shifting.
- RAV4 Prime
- Pros: Great EV mode range of over 40 miles. Toyota typically has very high quality and reliability. Full Fed tax rebate of $7500 b/c the battery is so large (Ford and Hyundai will still get $6,000+ )
- Cons: Slow 3.3 kW charger is standard, have to pay extra for 6.6 and only available as package on top trim. Vehicle is very difficult to get. No wireless AA. RAV 4 actually mediocre reliability, esp. for Toyota. I think the car is kind of ugly.
- Ford Escape PHEV
- Pros: Very good EV Range of 38 miles. 6.6 kW (? maybe) charger standard. I had a Ford C-Max PHEV and it had excellent reliability, Sync 3 was a breeze, too.
- Cons: Car looks ok, a bit outdated though. No wireless AA. AWD not available on the PHEV version. Contrary to my personal experience with the Ford C-Max PHEV, the Escape in general has had terrible reliability.
- Hyundai Tucson PHEV
- Pros: Stunning looks inside and out. Good EV Range of 32 miles. 7.2 kW onboard charging standard on all trims. All new vehicle. AWD standard on all trims. Wireless AA avail. on smaller 8 in screen but not 10 in (hope for future software updates to fix that?). Best warranty of the 3 by far.
- Cons: All new vehicle (unknown reliability). Not as powerful as the Ford or Toyota, and less EV range than either.
Anyway, I suspect I'm in the minority here and most people are probably going to get another EV. Would be interested to hear what ones are at the top of your lists.
Did Hyundai get in touch with you about a buy back? Did you get in touch with them? I filed a complaint with Hyundai a week ago Monday, as well as with the NHTSA, and haven't heard anything from either.
MarshaH
New Member
How did you start "the buyback process"?