How much Gas-only range should I expect from a 2018 PHEV full tank?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Jacobsk, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    Im quite sure i have had the range update and respectfully disagree. Its looks cool in the display but mine usually tells me i have about 50 more miles of combines range than i actually have. So could cause someone to die if they get stranded in a severe weather situation. All they have to do is just go by the wieght of the remaining fuel and added to the ev range and dump the data appproach. Right now my display shows hv range at 146 miles and ev at 48 miles for a combined 194 miles. I have about 3 gallons of fuel.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  2. cploy

    cploy New Member

    Mine shows 347 miles HV only and 53 EV, total 400 miles


    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
     
  3. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    "How much Gas-only range should I expect from a 2018 PHEV full tank?"
    about 300 miles
     
  4. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    I just figure 40 mpg x 7 gal. = 280
     
    KClark likes this.
  5. 2002

    2002 Active Member

    Until now I thought you were concerned that it was looking at average mpg in HV mode. But if it is looking at how often you charge then I agree that is a flaw. HV should be completely separate from EV so how often you charge shouldn't matter. Now people have experienced at least anecdotally that HV can operate a little different based on how much EV range you have, but certainly nothing that would cause HV range to vary by nearly twenty percent.
     
  6. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    This is little dramatic...

    Neal - If you are saying there may be a 50 mile discrepancy when "full" vs. reality, that could be true. As you use fuel however (either kW or gallons), the GOM values are constantly refined. ie: as you approach zero with either, the estimation error diminishes. There is no way that you will run out of gas and still have a 50 mile range remaining on the GOM. The accuracy of the guess gets ever-better as your fuel gets used, and that's when it really matters the most anyway. This, in conjunction with the bars on both the electric and gas seem plenty good to me. We can agree to disagree, but do you concur that the GOM improves as the fuel is used (it won't indicate that you have available range when you really have run out)?
     
  7. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    Im going to double check that the range service bulletin was indeed installed. I was told it was done but still off. Hv and combined range are the problem. Ev is very close.
     
  8. Danks

    Danks Member

    From what I have seen with my Clarity the EV range is the estimated maximum range left running EV and HV range is the estimated maximum left running HV. They do not appear to be an estimate of what you will actually get - unless your trip matches what the estimate is based on.

    For example. I left the house with a maximum estimated EV of 50 miles. I took the freeway at 70 mph and noticed that the EV range miles dropped faster than the miles I had driven. I had only gone 18 miles and my EV miles had dropped 25 miles. My trip was not matching what the estimate was based on. When I returned home I took surface streets with stop and go. My miles driven matched the EV miles much more closely. I expect that if I had gotten off the freeway after the 18 miles and driven surface streets my real miles would have matched the 25 it said I had left. If I stayed on the freeway for another 18 I would have had none left.

    So I look at it as an dynamic estimate of maximum range left in either EV or HV. Since I understand that the estimate is based mostly on my wife's driving of surface streets, I figure I am not going to get that maximum when I drive freeway. In fact, my limited experience tells me to expect about 70% of the estimated max. If it says 50, I figure 35 is closer to what I will really get. If I really want to conserve the EV I have so as not to run the ICE before charging, then I switch from the freeway to the surface streets.
     
  9. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Active Member

    I almost feel like this thread should be titled "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" It also reminds me of this scene from the movie Phenomenon.
    Specifics - uphill/downhill/ambient temperature/climate control settings/headwind/tailwind/tire pressure/type of tires and wear and circumference/leadfoot/stop&go/average speed and speed variation of vehicle/altitude/terrain/road conditions/vehicle cargo/ --- just to name a few. Since these aren't constant on a day to day basis, even if the GOM did a perfect job, without knowing all these for the upcoming drive, it will always be a at best an average guess based on recent history. In other words YMMV seems to fit.
     
  10. 2002

    2002 Active Member

    That seems to be a reasonable expectation. I also think HV range might be similarly affected since higher freeway speeds will lower gas mpg compared to surface streets.

    True except the other side of it is whether there is still room for improvement even after the software patch which solved at least the most glaring flaw in the logic. It's possible that a few minor changes might make it at least somewhat more accurate overall.

    I used to work in software management for a paint company and our software had a feature called "volume estimator" to help painters estimate the amount of paint needed for a particular job. The results I guess you could say were in the ballpark if you consider being out in left field good enough. We kept telling the software designers about minor changes in the logic that could be made that would make it much more accurate overall. They kept coming back with "It's just an estimate it can never be perfect" and they would list all of the variables that can affect it. We would tell them we are already familiar with all of that and we aren't talking about making it 100% accurate in every situation, but it is currently at about 60% accuracy and we know exactly why and what can be easily changed to get it up to at least 75% accurate. And with some slightly harder modifications (requiring updating data tables) it could get as high as 90% but we will be thrilled if you can at least make the minor changes to get it to 75% accurate. No matter what we said the answer was always the same "It's just an estimate it can never be perfect".
     
    neal adkins likes this.
  11. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    Its hard for high tech people to admit it just ain't right and fix it. I mostly have a problem with the combined range displayed. But i understand how some of the veterans feel as this issue has been thoroughly covered on this forum. But then comes along a newbie that is confused about how such a high tech car cant add 2+2.....its really that simple. But i love how the car performs. Had mine just over 1 year.
     
  12. Rav

    Rav New Member

    I don't really use gas (mostly when the car needs to start on it's own for "safety" purposes) but when the gas kicks in, the Clarity is a gas hog. The 42mpg Honda claims is a joke and it reminds me how nice it was to actually get 54+mpg on my old Prius. oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Just keep in mind that Honda makes a lot of claims (especially on the Clarity) but the reality is different.
     
  13. Fast Eddie B

    Fast Eddie B Well-Known Member

    42 mpg is what we seem to average on long HV road trips, and that seems excellent for a car of this size and weight.
     
    Louis Nisenbaum and MPower like this.
  14. petteyg359

    petteyg359 Active Member Subscriber

    The bars on the gas gauge go completely empty while there's still a full gallon in the tank, which is around 50 miles for me in HV mode.

    Then either there's something wrong with your specific car or you're a horrible driver. I *always* get 45+, and I'm not doing anything special.
     
  15. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    Just as a point of reference, I have filled the tank 7 times so far.

    The reported HV range numbers immediately after filling were:
    385, 371, 359, 358, 351, 362, 373

    This averages to 365. With the 7 gallon tank, this calculation implies 52 MPG is used for the initial estimate. That does indeed seem overly-optimistic. I don't have enough long HV trips to declare meaningful actual data (others in this Forum do), but I think realistically, the actual mileage during HV operation will be in the mid 40's. Not the 54+ reported by @Rav in his Prius above, but certainly not "a joke" either !!!

    I do believe that the HV range estimate (although starting over-optimistically high), will get better as the fuel is used. ie: The reported HV range will approach zero as the fuel approaches zero, and therefore you won't ever have a situation where you actually run out of fuel when there are still 50 miles of reported range.
     
    TomL likes this.
  16. MrFixit

    MrFixit Active Member

    @petteyg359 - When you have this scenario (zero bars, with a full gallon remaining in the tank), does the reported HV range read 50, or is it down to zero like the bars indicate?
     
  17. petteyg359

    petteyg359 Active Member Subscriber

    The HV range indication was around 50 at the time the gas gauge was empty. It was down to 15 miles HV range when we stopped at a gas station and it took less than 7 gallons to fill up.
     
  18. neal adkins

    neal adkins Active Member

    Unless you had it in hv charge mode
     
  19. 2002

    2002 Active Member

    What HV mpg are you getting?
     
  20. Clarity_Newbie

    Clarity_Newbie Active Member

    insightman likes this.

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