For our EV skeptics

Discussion in 'General' started by bwilson4web, Nov 5, 2023.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber



    FYI, neither my Tesla EV nor my BMW i3 EV are for sale. But to add facts and data he omitted:
    1. Public Chargers - Tesla SuperChargers continue to increase in numbers with shorter ranges and higher performance. The gasoline company BP has recently bought some Tesla SuperChargers and more are coming. Some of the CCS-1 charging companies are still in business and expanding. As for my BMW i3, it carries a range extender engine-generator so it never has to use public charging.
    2. Unpredictable Range - did catch me on a 95 F day in Nashville, my one and only tow a mile from the SuperChargers. I was in a rush but lesson learned, it is unlikely to happen again. No problems dealing with cold weather. The BMW i3 has a range extender engine-generator.
    3. Tires - Tesla tires are built more for acceleration and handling. It is easy enough to get and achieve 60,000 miles buying tires with a higher wear rating. As for the BMW i3, the unique tires are part of 2014-2022 optimization for improved range. No one else uses them.
    4. Repairs - once the warranty expires, I do my own maintenance including purchasing the parts and using the Tesla documentation. FYI, there is a built-in if light weight diagnostic. The owner rentable shop version runs on Google Chrome and can be rented for a period of time.
    5. Unknown Long Term Reliability - my Tesla has 117,565 miles and the BMW i3 over 60,000 miles. How long is 'Long Term'? I'm certainly happy with both vehicles.
    6. Battery Failure - the Tesla is down ~10% and the BMW i3 down ~5%. Both project 10-15 years before 'end of life.' But happily, the number of public chargers (see #1) has increased at least as fast as my batteries degraded. Recently I added CCS-1 charging to my Tesla. The BMW i3 carries its own range extender engine-generator. I found it in the Toyota dealer with a 'discharged' battery. Finally, the BMW i3 has become my urban driver to extend the life of my Tesla battery.
    7. Resale Value - I effectively 'stole' my 2017 BMW i3 for $15,000 and never looked back. Neither of my EVs are for sale. BTW, I traded in a 2017 Prius Prime for $18,300 to purchase the Tesla and have no problem with getting much more than that Prime was worth to me.
    8. Insurance - I pay off my cars quickly and only carry liability. When Tesla sells their insurance in Alabama, I'll switch.
    9. Price - My $42,000 Tesla was only $24,000 because of the 2017 Prime trade-in. There was also a $3,750 tax credit in 2020. My $15,000 BMW i3 gets a $4,000 tax credit in 2024.
    The title claims '10 reasons' but the reviewer only gave 9. I would not loan him money. Worse, some of the 'reasons' over lap.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. My F150 lightning is not up for sale either. "Shocking" I know! I got it for the $39k MSRP plus a $4k rebate from the state. In addition to being used for truck purposes it is a great highway cruiser and if needed I can power my house off it as well. Since 95% of my driving is with in a single charge range and I use my solar to charge it cost me nothing to drive around.
     
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  4. Sharing honest real-world experience (as I do at EV meetups) here as well in case it may be useful to someone. Our EV ownership began in 2018 and we have had five EV's (currently have three) and since July 2018 our household vehicles have been all-electric. Our last ICE vehicle was a 2008 Ford Edge. Current BEV's are a 2017 Smart fortwo ED cabrio (technically bought new however the dealer had it for almost a year, we have driven it almost 16k miles since August 2018, 58 miles EPA, L2 only used now just for local errands), a 2021 Mach E California Route 1 (driven 14k miles since September 2022, 305 miles EPA, CCS 150 kW max charging), and a 2021 Mach E Select (driven 6k miles since May 2023, 230 miles EPA, CCS 110 kW max) 5 yrs, 4 months. The 2018 Smart fortwo cabrio (ordered from factory, drove 12k April 2018-October 2023) and a 2017 Ford Focus Electric (drove 20k April 2019-October 2022, 115 miles EPA, CCS 50 kW max) have been given to family members. Not gonna click on the video. Instead, I am following the outline by @bwilson4web:

    Public chargers - Most of the miles I have driven were within range of the vehicle and I have charged more at home than publicly. I have used public charging over 400 times. Of public charging sessions a little over half were DCFC and the other half L2. In the last two years I have only used public charging twice within 30 miles of my house. +1 on the point that public EV charging locations has expanded greatly (about four or five fold in the region I live in) while the range and charging speed of the EV's we have owned have greatly increased, enough to more than match our travel time in the Ford Edge. The first year we were on L2 only, but even when we did get the Ford Focus Electric, in southwest Florida we still charged with L2 on the way. Since fall 2019 I/we have taken six out-of-state road trips. Yes public CCS charging has room for improvement and it still takes a little planning and determination for a successful out-of-range trip in 2023, but not as much as it did in 2019, and one or both of us need to stop to go to the bathroom/stretch/etc long before either Mach E range is used so we stop where there are CCS chargers and charge while we stop. In 2024 the NACS adapter will expand charging location options for our Mach E's.

    Range predictability - When I drove ICE, I started looking for a gas station when the gas gauge read 1/4 tank, which I learned from experience was an approximation. That meant maybe 60-80 miles to go. I ran out of gas twice. Neither of us have run out of electrons in 68k miles of driving EV's.

    Tires - Both of our Mach E's were bought used. The Mach E California Route needed a new set when we bought it at 45k miles. The tires on the front were very near the wear line, the tires on the rear were replaced by the prior owner with tires for a passenger car. In the 14k miles we have used maybe half the tread life. I have replaced three tires on the 2017 Smart fortwo. Two at 12k because I had a little too much fun driving it, and the third where the sidewall was punctured by taking the corner too sharply and scraping a broken curb face. The Focus Electric tires were 40k rated, probably on track for replacement at 30k. All of the above were low rolling resistance (LRR) tires, our choice. The way I drive is my choice.

    Repairs - The Mach E California Route had an oil (actually motor lubricant) pump replaced under warranty. Were it not under warranty this would have cost us about $3.6k per the service rep. The tail light housing was loose and that cost $77 to tighten. The Ford Focus Electric had the AC unit replaced (about $1.4k) when rats chewed the wires. The 2017 Smart fortwo had the drivers side rear axle replaced for about $2k. The Smarts also had several battery management system upgrades (no charge but were in the shop for two days to a week each time) and annual same-day service visits to replace fluids and cabin air filters ($300-$800 per visits). I do wonder about the long term costs to eventually replace all of the things, some of them EV only, some are common with ICE, and which costs less overall. So far rair costs for all the EV's are less than what we spent maintaining the Ford Edge (which we also bought as a late model).

    Unknown long term reliability - Time will tell.

    Battery failure - All of our vehicles are well within the 8 year 100k mile warranty. Beyond that, time will tell.

    Resale value - None of our cars are for sale, we either drive our cars until unfixable or give them to family members, so resale value is not a factor in the vehicles we buy.

    Insurance - I did not notice a significant change in cost in switching to BEV's.

    Price - The Smart fortwos were based on the ICE Smart fortwo and about $9k more than the ICE equivalent. We got a $7,500 tax credit for the purchase and the credit was factored into the lease. We spent maybe $500 to charge them at home. The ICE equivalent would have been maybe $2k for gas. So in another 15k of driving we'll break even overall with the Smarts. When we purchased the Focus Electric used, it cost less than the equivalent ICE Focus. The used Mach E prices at the times of purchase were well above that of an ICE Mustang/Escape, however, that is not as direct a comparison as the Mach E is a very different vehicle.

    We are quite happy with driving all BEV's.
     
  5. CatherineSevert

    CatherineSevert New Member

    Thanks for sharing your experience, I will keep it in my mind. I appreciate you for taking the time to write it in brief.
     
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