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Discussion in 'Clarity' started by ringf4g4plugin guy, Aug 19, 2019.
are they at dealers ?
any major changes ?
They're not out yet, my dealer is taking orders in like November
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I think it is possible that it will get a new infotainment system with physical buttons (like 2020 Civics).
The way things have been going many of us are doubtful that there will be any changes in 2020. But I will say that if Honda does want to increase sales but doesn't want to invest a lot of money in the car, I think updating to the new infotainment system would go a long way. Personally I use Android Auto almost exclusively, and unlike apparently the majority of owners I really like the Lanewatch camera, which seems to be absent in the new system and is replaced by blindspot monitoring. And I am fine with the volume control on the steering wheel. But having the old infotainment system does not present the car well to new buyers and it gives reviewers something glaring to mention. That and the lack of adjustable lumbar support are commonly mentioned in reviews. Of course the other big objection in most reviews and comments is the styling, but it seems nearly impossible that the styling will change in 2020. But new infotainment and lumbar support are at least conceivable. Whether it actually happens or not is anyone's guess at the moment.
I don't mind the current design, it is easier to wipe the screen and the volume button on the wheel is adequate. Any improvement to driver assist features is welcome though.
Not sure what state you’re in, but if you live outside of California I doubt you’ll ever see a 2020 at a dealer period. Honda has essentially made this a CA only car.
I will speculate there will be zero changes for 2020. Time will tell. And if history holds true you won’t see any 2020s appearing until we get a few months into 2020.
First, Honda rarely makes significant changes in a model's third year. Second, Honda wouldn't circle the Clarity wagons (as it were) in California if they were looking to increase sales and if they're not looking to increase sales, it seems unlikely they'd put a big effort into creating a new infotainment system that interfaces with the Clarity's many features. Third, a new infotainment system wouldn't sell many additional Claritys the way significantly increasing the EV range would sell more Claritys.
To fix-quote 2002 above, the way things are going, many of us doubt there will be any Claritys in 2020.
I’m sticking my my prediction that the current phase of the experiment is over.
Despite the narrative repeatedly stated on this forum, the Clarity platform dates back to 2017 model year for the fuel cell model, meaning it is arguably due for a minor refresh in keeping with company practices. It would be easy to update the infotainment in a minor fashion to match the 2019+ Civic, which already matches many internal components. Though I would prefer the Insight system.
Orders are open in Canada for 2020 Clarity for Q1 2020 delivery. I don't know why people still seem to think it's being discontinued. I have already ordered one and have seen the bulletin.
BeMurda I am replying to your post here because I didn't want to hijack the electric thread.
That was first heard as a rumor back in about early July that production for 2019 had ended and there would be several months down time before 2020 production began. At first I assumed the rumor was just coming from dealers in regions that weren't getting cars anymore who were jumping to that conclusion prior to the Honda announcement that cars for inventory are now shipping only to California. But watching VIN numbers I have not seen any new cars arriving in California for quite a while. The highest VIN number that I have seen for a 2019 is 004923, most in California are 4,000s and 3,000's. The highest VIN that I have a mfg date for is 003454 which was built 5/19. Production of the 2019 model started in December so only getting to barely over 3,000 by May is a low production rate, and so far I have been accepting that as the reason for not seeing any VIN numbers in the 5,000's yet in California. But unless we start to see VIN numbers going up again in California sometime soon then the rumors that production for 2019 ended a month or so ago may be true.
There are quite a large number of 2019's sitting on dealer lots in California, but many seem to have been sitting there for a while. I will take a guess that those are dealers who are not willing to pass along any of the $5,000 factory incentive.
Open order books is no guarantee of production. Honda will have no issue with canceling your order when the info about no 2020 run finally makes it to the appropriate department. My guess is that more likely your order will sit on the books with no interaction from Honda until you push the issue with the dealer after hearing nothing in Q1. Radio silence is kind of the Honda MO.
According to who? All the available evidence points to the existence of the 2020 Clarity, not to cancellation. The burden of proof lies with the people claiming cancellation. People seem to think the US is the centre of the universe and a change in availability in some states there must mean cancellation. Canada just introduced an EV rebate that is increasing sales a lot. Did any of you ever consider that Honda might merely direct more units of their limited capacity to more profitable markets outside of the US? It sells for
$45k here, no dealer incentives, high interest rates, and dealers generally don't negotiate on list price at all. And there is a waiting list.
OP never stated where he/she lives. I am guilty of being USA centric in my thinking and actions. I know nothing about Clarity sales outside the US. With that in mind I will quote myself with an addendum in all caps:
I am genuinely curious what overall Clarity sales are, by country. US figures are published on this site every month, but I almost never see data for sales outside the US. While I don’t consider the US to be the “center of the universe” I do get the impression that maybe 90% of sales and active forum members are in the US. And maybe I’m wrong? Anyone know?
Honda Canada is a separate division from American Honda Motor Company so we certainly can't make assumptions about one based on the other, although there could be similarities.
Honda demonstrated in 2018 that they can make plenty of cars for any market that needs them. Unless batteries are an issue but so far that is just conjecture. I have wondered if Canada has a similar undecipherable situation regarding lack of cars as we do in the U.S., where Honda puts a limited number of cars in a market and then stops shipping them due to lower than expected sales, or sales that require too much discounting to be worth it in an area where they don't need the credits that badly. And then as the cars disappear from that area and become hard to find it creates the impression of high demand, i.e. "we just can't keep them in stock".
Like Honda Canada was saying recently on their website:
Battery supply as an industry-wide issue is not conjecture. It is clearly ongoing. Information suggesting Honda's supply is constrained is speculative, I agree.
As mentioned, Canadian Claritys started selling like hotcakes with essentially no dealer negotiation as soon as the Canadian Federal EV rebate of $5k came into being. That made it possible to get a Clarity in Quebec for $13,000.00 off in government rebates only, and $10,000 off in BC. Now there is a waiting list and Canada is essentially sold out - trust me, I tried my best to have a 2019 shipped to my province from three other provinces. I'm quite certain there has never been a manufacturer incentive on the Clarity in Canada. It's absurd to me that a huge manufacturer incentive on top of the $7500 tax credit has been required in the US to sell them and may explain why Honda is retreating partially from that market.
Both sad and true, but I am not complaining! My only peeve is that we did not get the battery heater.
Is it possible for CA folks to buy in the U.S. and ship or drive home? Are there import costs, or would you lose the CA incentives?
Again it is very hard to decipher what is going on, even though on the surface it can give the appearance that either Honda cannot keep up with production demand, or they simply don't want to sell more than a certain number of cars in Canada even at full price. But unfortunately a piece of information that would help is not easily available in Canada which is production dates, which is a way to gauge the flow of cars into a region, or to be able to tell when it has stopped. Production dates can be estimated fairly accurately based on VIN numbers once you have some samples, for example the one sample that I have from Canada is a VIN that ends in 0805 which was manufactured 5/19. Unfortunately dealers in Canada don't display VIN number on their websites like they do in the U.S., so there is no easy way to estimate the movement of cars onto dealer lots in Canada like we can in the U.S.
So it is possible (or at least my theory) that Canada may have been affected by the reduction in production that occurred earlier this year because of the pullback in the U.S. market, especially if production was suspended for the rest of the model year as is currently rumored, and the cars produced in the final weeks or months prior to the shutdown all went to California. I know you say they were selling like hotcakes in Canada and now there is a waiting list, and I don't doubt that, but I wonder what the actual numbers are, it may not have been enough for Honda to do anything different in Canada than what they did in ZEV states in the U.S. for the 2019 ramp down. Perhaps also affected by the fact that Canada gets a different version of Clarity than anywhere else in the world so the total numbers for that version will likely not be very high.
What is interesting is that you will be getting 2020 cars, so unless Honda changes their recently stated strategy it will only be California and Canada for 2020. California presumably because of a need for credits as well as higher than average electric car sales in general compared to the rest of the U.S. And Canada possibly because there they can sell at least a reasonable amount of cars without discounting.
Not sure how Japan is affected, I don't know what Clarity sales have been like there.
Here is the only thing I can find for a pretty solid breakdown of Canadian sales numbers:
They only list "Honda Clarity FCV", which frankly I am assuming is a typo, and likely includes ALL Honda Clarities because the chart doesn't even list a PHEV or EV...
If these numbers are accurate it appears Canada has sold about 800ish Clarities thru middle of the year, where in the US Honda generally sells more than 800 per month. So this gives a bit a credence to my earlier guestimation that 90% of Clarity sales, and therefore 90% of action here on this forum, comes from US owners and buyers, since US seems to have at least 10x more Clarity sales than Canada does on an ongoing basis. Will be curious how that continues going forward.
As for Europe, Asia, etc? I have no earthly idea how many Clarities are sold overseas...it is another curiosity.
Since Tesla cut Model 3 price aggressively earlier this year, other EVs have had a hard time selling. Many car buyers don't have a good idea about the actual cost of the vehicle and just look at MSRP, which indicates you can have a Model 3 for $39k vs. a Clarity for 34k. In reality you can have a Clarity for sub $20k, which makes it about half of the cost of a Model 3.
Just for kicks I googled "honda.co.uk" and there is no mention of a Clarity. Also "honda.co.th" (Thailand) with no mention of the Clarity. In Japan, however, (honda.co.jp) the phev is mentioned. In fact the 2018-19 model was car of the year!
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