Why a Kona is better than a Tesla M3

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R P

R P

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Since Earl keeps interjecting himself on the Kona forums trying to convince people that Tesla is better, I thought I would try move the discussion over here where it belongs.

Here are some past quotes from previous threads.
R P said:
My main comparison was with my son's Tesla M3 RWD Long Range. I drove it a few times and rode with him often. I was surprised how plain jane the interior was. A top trim Corolla has a more luxurious interior. Lacked a lot of options that the Kona has. IE, no Android Auto or CarPlay, no ventilated seats, no HUD (which I have grown to really appreciate on my Kona), very low to the ground and exit/entry not easy (my head always bumps the top sill), and lots of other stuff. Range is about the same as my Kona. Power is more in the Tesla, but my Kona is certainly no slouch.

Anyway, it was actually my son that recommended I look at the Kona (was not available when he ordered his M3). And when I did, was surprised how nice it was (Ultimate trim) and feature rich.
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R P said:
Another advantage of a Kona over a Tesla, is that Hyundai has a longer track record of building reliable cars. The EV parts may be new and still unproven, but the rest of the car is solid. With Tesla, everything is new, and it will take them a long time to work out all the bugs and design intricacies that affect long term reliability. That's why most Tesla owners go with leases, as it will really start costing you in repairs once the warranty runs out.

Case in point is my is my son's Tesla Model 3. He has had a whole bunch of problems with his, incl body, suspension, interior, etc, etc. Now his warranty has run out, just a few months ago, and the problems are continuing. He tried to get everything fixed just before then, but they are still happening. A few weeks ago his charge port stopped opening and closing properly. He can still do it manually, so can live with that. His headliner keeps coming apart. Was fixed a couple times, but now another section is coming off. He can live with that and plans to glue it himself to fix it. Then just last week, his panoramic glass roof cracked. We are getting a very hot spell here, and I suspect it has something to do with the heat (expansion and cooling). Anyway, that would be a very expensive repair and he is going to try an insurance claim for that.

Then just yesterday, on his drive up to the interior for a week vacation, his A/C started acting up. It is very hot there right now, said his outside air temp reading in the car hit 42C while driving. And he has to go up and down high mountains on the way. The problem is that it cuts out, and then starts up again, while driving. When he stops, the car's fans are going full bore (lots of noise) when you step out of the car, seemingly trying to cool it down. He has never heard/seen this before on this car. So something seems to be very wrong with that.

The problem with Tesla is that their full car warranty is only good for 3 years and 80K kms, and he is now well over that (they drive a lot). The battery and electric drive train are good for 8 years and I think 160K kms, which is OK. But that is one area that he has not any problems. It is the rest of the car that seems to be falling apart, and no longer under warranty. And he paid cash for it new, expecting and hoping that it would last a long time. Now he could be facing a lot of repair costs going forward.

So I think a Hyundai or Kia, and probably a Chevy Bolt is a lot better bet at this time than a Tesla if you want to keep your car for a while.
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I've multiple issues with my Hyundai Sonata Plugin. So far I haven't been happy with Hyundai's reliability.
 
  • $2.75/100 mi City
    • Does not include free chargers
  • $3.50/100 mi SuperCharger
    • Does not include free overnight and breakfast charging
  • AutoPilot already saved multiple ‘micro sleep’ incidents
    • AutoPilot is standard, not optional tied to trim level
  • No ignorant or lying dealer
I’m fully satisfied with my 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Bob Wilson
 
This thread was created to get Earl off the Kona forum. Since then Dominick has created a separate thread down in the Off Topic section. This one should probably be moved down there as well.

And now Earl seems to have disappeared...
 
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Not even close to Tesla and not worth the $44999 to $53149 ( Canadian prices ) prices for the 2021 Kona Electric

It took the success of Tesla to get the other car companies to start building EV's.
Tesla is far ahead by 5-8 years with the 4680 batteries and with some of the single piece castings for next gen Model Y.

The Kona is not ground up design EV but modified ICE vehicle.

Interior design worse than Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, VW, Ford etc.
Top trim Corolla has better interior than Kona as well.

The problems / issues being posted is about battery and traction motor etc on the Kona while majority of problems on Tesla is about poor body gap and paint.

If these were ICE vehicles its like comparing issues of engine/transmission problems ( drivetrain ) compared to poor body gaps, paint.

The BMW i3 has been out since 2013 and the Nissan Leaf since 2011 and they do not have the same EV powertrain issues as the Kona as both designed as EV platform.

Now that the new Ioniq 5 is EV platform from the get go, I suspect it be much better engineering than both the Hyundai Kona and Kia Nero EV.

Dan
 
Not that I really want to drag out this argument on this forum, and I suggested it be moved to join the one in the Off Topic forum. But since Dan responded, I will just say that I stand by my comments in the first post. They are based on direct experience with my Kona and my son's M3, not on non-experienced internet opinion.

I will say too, that I am even happier now with my Kona purchase than when I first got it. I was one of the very few that had the traction motor clicking issue early on. They replaced both the motor and reduction drive and it has been good ever since. I have had zero issues with the car otherwise. Not even any minor new car adjustments or fixes that are not uncommon in any new car. So I am very happy with the reliability of the car. And the range is exceptional, making it a good trip car, too.

The battery issue is not the fault of Hyundai, but am happy with how they are dealing with it. My battery will be replaced, likely in the next year or so (the longer the better for me), and then it will be like the odometer was rolled back to zero. Unlike an ICE car, the other wear components on an EV are minimal. Other manufacturers with battery defects chose software fixes that limited range (eg Tesla), but Hyundai took the expensive route with battery replacements. In the US, I understand they are also offering buybacks, which sound pretty generous from those who already got their offers. I would be interested in that, too (although not likely to happen in Canada), as then I could look at buying the new Ioniq 5. That car looks it will be setting a new standard with EV technology (800V, etc), and will be a step up compared to the competitors. It has the fastest charging out there, full 350kW. Next fastest is the Taycan, also 800V but only 270 kW (lower range, too).

I am also very interested to see what Toyota/Subaru come up with. Their first BEV will be aimed at the off-road adventure crowd, and may be able to replace my current ICE off-road capable SUV. I have more faith/trust in Toyota technology/engineering than any other manufacturer.
 
I do agree with:

" I am also very interested to see what Toyota/Subaru come up with. Their first BEV will be aimed at the off-road adventure crowd, and may be able to replace my current ICE off-road capable SUV. I have more faith/trust in Toyota technology/engineering than any other manufacturer. "

If Toyota and Honda had BEV's they most likely be the most reliable on the market.

I may not own an Tesla but I have been in them many times and I like the clean minimalist interior. The screen reminds me of my iPad Pro 12.9 and I think the software that Tesla is using as interface better than anyone else. Just like I prefer the Apple ecosystem , so also have iPhone 11Pro, Macbook Pro, iPad Pro 12.9, Apple watch Series 6, Apple AirPods Pro as everything works together.

The new Ioniq 5 , reminds me of some of the 1980 styling and I was big fan of the Deloren.

In general all EV's should be more reliable as less moving parts, no transmission , exhaust, catalytic etc to deal with or the oil changes.

Dan
 
The existence of this misplaced thread does more to show the futility of Kona advocates. As a general rule, I don’t go to other car forums to ‘kick dirt.’ One exception would be hydrogen fool cells. Otherwise, misplaced threads suggests someone trying too hard to hide the warts.

I agree with the earlier suggestion there might be a better place. Or just lock it for community health.

Bob Wilson

ps. Reporting myself to the moderator.
 
upload_2021-5-29_18-49-22.webp
  • Model 3 efficiency improved from 25 kWh/100 mi to 24 kWh/100 mi
  • Model 3 range increased from 240 to 263 miles
Hyundai Kona performance has remained static while 2021 Tesla Model 3 improved. Curious, the two 2019 models, the Model 3 city, 140 MPGe, and highway, 124 MPGe, are better than either the 2019 or 2021 Hyundai Kona.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
As a general rule, I don’t go to other car forums to ‘kick dirt.’
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Yeah, but your cohort Earl did. He kept interjecting on various threads on the Kona forum to spew his Tesla fanboi delusions. That's why I sent him over here with this thread, since he wanted to talk about Tesla so much. But now he has disappeared. Doesn't want to play in his own sand box...
 
miatadan said:
I may not own an Tesla but I have been in them many times and I like the clean minimalist interior. T
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That's Tesla's euphemism for cheap. And I think that cheap looking faded fake wood panel strip (in my son's M3) is particularly hideous.

And what they really need with that center console is a HUD. When I drive with my son in his M3, he can't go 5 minutes without poking and looking at it. I first thought the HUD was just a gadget in the Kona, but have really learned to appreciate it. It really gives you great situational awareness showing traffic around you and all pertinent driving info when needed. And you are not distracted by looking away from the road, like with that center console.
 
R P said:
but your cohort Earl did
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So you abuse others for what 'Earl' did?

A fan of the three stooges, I never treated their antics as a moral example:
stooges-header.jpg

Rather, I prefer reproducible, engineering metrics. For example:
https://www.epa.gov/compliance-and-fuel-economy-data/data-cars-used-testing-fuel-economy

Bob Wilson
 
R P said:
That's Tesla's euphemism for cheap. And I think that cheap looking faded fake wood panel strip (in my son's M3) is particularly hideous.

And what they really need with that center console is a HUD. When I drive with my son in his M3, he can't go 5 minutes without poking and looking at it. I first thought the HUD was just a gadget in the Kona, but have really learned to appreciate it. It really gives you great situational awareness showing traffic around you and all pertinent driving info when needed. And you are not distracted by looking away from the road, like with that center console.
Click to expand...

You would think HUD would be natural option to have when no gauges in front of you. If I remember correctly the Prius Prime also has instrumentian in the center as well but HUD available.
 
BTW, both our 2014 BMW i3-REx and 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 have the 'wood like' dash. The dash played no role in my purchase decision. Rather:
  • BMW Range Extender engine - meant I was not dependent on often broken, slow 50 kW, or unreliable CCS-1 chargers.
  • SuperCharger network - seamlessly integrated with the Tesla Model 3. So 2-2.5 hour of driving for every 20 minutes of charging. We even get a count of open charging lanes at 6-8 SuperCharger stations. The initial 100 kW peak charge rate is now 170 kW.
My previous rides were 2003, 2010, and 2017 Prius. You soon learned to take a quick glance and keep on trucking. Cruise control made speed management easy.

With AutoPilot, both lane keeping and dynamic cruise control allows longer views, 5-10 seconds, with full confidence the car won't drive into the ditch. It is an acquired skill. But several 'micro sleep' events saved the car and my wife from winding up in a ditch, tree, or power pole. AutoPilot paid for itself that day.

Bob Wilson
 
The biggest kudos I give to the M3 and Elon Musk is they really kick started and drove the current BEV revolution. It woke up the other car makers, and they finally decided to get on the bandwagon. There will be a lot of very interesting new BEVs coming in the next few years.

I am kind of waiting to see what Tesla will do for an encore. The S, X and M3 are getting a little long in the tooth. You can only milk an old platform with incremental improvements for so long. They need something brand new and exciting, that will appeal to and convert over new BEV owners. And hopefully not something as outlandish looking as the Cybertruck.

First movers are not always winners in the long run. Eg Blackberry, Beta, Kodak, Xerox, IBM and many others.
 
R P said:
The biggest kudos I give to the M3 and Elon Musk is they really kick started and drove the current BEV revolution. It woke up the other car makers, and they finally decided to get on the bandwagon. There will be a lot of very interesting new BEVs coming in the next few years.

I am kind of waiting to see what Tesla will do for an encore. The S, X and M3 are getting a little long in the tooth. You can only milk an old platform with incremental improvements for so long. They need something brand new and exciting, that will appeal to and convert over new BEV owners. And hopefully not something as outlandish looking as the Cybertruck.

First movers are not always winners in the long run. Eg Blackberry, Beta, Kodak, Xerox, IBM and many others.
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Yes the current models from Tesla getting long in the tooth and we can add the BMW i3 and the Nissan Leaf to the list of getting a little long in the tooth.

It is nice to see new additions such as the new VW ID4, Mustang Mach-E, Mazda MX30, Mini Cooper SE

Dan
 
miatadan said:
It is nice to see new additions such as the new VW ID4, Mustang Mach-E, Mazda MX30, Mini Cooper SE
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I haven't seen much yet about the MX30. Not bad looking though. But I see it has a pretty small battery at only 35.5 kWh, so pretty limited range. But should be OK around town. Might be appealing if it is not that expensive. Not too impressed with the Mach-E. Thought Ford would have done better with the battery technology since it is a brand new model.

If I had money to burn, I would probably go with a Porsche Taycan. I like the combo of performance and luxury. But my practical sense won't let me...
 
I do not think it be wise to purchase the Tesla Model 3 or Mustang Mach-E without seeing the Mazda MX30 or VW ID4 first.

I finally driven the Mach-E but still feel it is too expensive and Ford made zero effect to bring EV's at the just under $45000 Canadian to qualify for the rebate here in Canada.

There was actually nothing wrong with the 2019 VW Jetta Execline I had but I no longer wanted to be driving an ICE vehicle but wanted to be driving an EV since 2010.

No sign of the fabled Tesla Model 2 either.

Dan
 
bwilson4web said:
So you abuse others for what 'Earl' did?
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No, I said multiple times the thread should be moved to off topic. I see now it has. Although it actually was on topic discussing the M3. And you did your part to keep it going, too. The problem with you, Bob, is that you can't stand anything other than glowing praise for Tesla, a true fanboi. So you, Earl, and Binary 45 are very much alike in that regard.

At least most of the rest of us are a little more realistic, and ready to acknowledge that our cars aren't perfect. Have never seen that from you.
 
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