What is the "final" fix for the battery fire recall?

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Telek

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New user here, I did try to scan through all the recent posts, but I can't find anything definitive and I'm somewhat surprised that there's no pinned post about this.

I see some people saying less range, some people saying more. Some say lower SoC, some say the same. Some have said slower L2 charging or a pause near the end, some say lower DCFC, others say that's only due to temperature. I understand that the BMS may have amnesia, but it's hard to see what the actual net result is.

Can anyone say exactly what the final fix is for the battery recall?
 
Telek said:
New user here, I did try to scan through all the recent posts, but I can't find anything definitive and I'm somewhat surprised that there's no pinned post about this.

I see some people saying less range, some people saying more. Some say lower SoC, some say the same. Some have said slower L2 charging or a pause near the end, some say lower DCFC, others say that's only due to temperature. I understand that the BMS may have amnesia, but it's hard to see what the actual net result is.

Can anyone say exactly what the final fix is for the battery recall?
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~77,000 of these:
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/genuine/hyundai-battery-system-assy~37501-k4051.html
cost could be significantly reduced if dealt with on a modular basis:
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/genuine/hyundai-battery-module-assy-type-a~375j1-k4001.html
 
Telek said:
Sorry I'm not following - I thought there was a software fix? Hyundai isn't replacing every battery, are they?
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My understanding was they issued a software update to the system that monitors the battery to alert to the problem before it goes up in flames. They said that was a final fix but based on the new fire last week it seems it may not be a good enough fix.
 
Telek said:
New user here, I did try to scan through all the recent posts, but I can't find anything definitive and I'm somewhat surprised that there's no pinned post about this.

I see some people saying less range, some people saying more. Some say lower SoC, some say the same. Some have said slower L2 charging or a pause near the end, some say lower DCFC, others say that's only due to temperature. I understand that the BMS may have amnesia, but it's hard to see what the actual net result is.

Can anyone say exactly what the final fix is for the battery recall?
Click to expand...
Hi, As far as I understand there is no actual fix (yet?), but the recall has added in a self diagnostic check when you reach the 80% charge mark & 90%, as described here: the Battery Management System software upgrade carried out in this recall uses a new battery self-diagnosis logic that is applied for both AC & DC charging. The Battery Management System will momentarily stop charging the battery and carry out a battery self-diagnosis –once all systems are checked, charging will automatically recommence. The main effect of these software changes is to add a 10 minute ‘battery self-diagnosis’ step at the 80% and 90% points. For those charging overnight at home, that is unlikely to even be noticed.
 
Basically the BMS Recall was only a software update that evaluates the "tolerence" of each individual battery during Charging. When it approached 80%, the software runs this eval process to make sure none of the batteries are "out of tolerance" vs the other batteries. I *THINK* that value was something like .02v ... If a battery is determined to be out of tolerance (e.g., beyond the set threshold of like .02v) then the software flags it and I believe an Error Indicator shows up on the dash - requiring service (e.g., replace battery(ies)????) Anyway, that's the way I understand it. There's a lot of other details out here if you search. Other than some very minor lower charging SOC, this seemed pretty benign to me personally. I don't charge that often so others may have more negative results in their charging if doing it frequently, or topping to 100% more often. I've read here that some people a longer time to TOP at 100% due to this software update.
 
electriceddy said:
~77,000 of these:
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/genuine/hyundai-battery-system-assy~37501-k4051.html
cost could be significantly reduced if dealt with on a modular basis:
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/genuine/hyundai-battery-module-assy-type-a~375j1-k4001.html
Click to expand...

@electriceddy do you know what is the difference between these two high voltage battery back, price is different. I think is the root causes known and solve the new replacement high voltage battery.
 
Markku Heikkinen said:
@electriceddy do you know what is the difference between these two high voltage battery back, price is different. I think is the root causes known and solve the new replacement high voltage battery.
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The first link is for a replacement of the entire pack, but the pack itself contains 5 sub-assemblies. The 2nd link is for one of the sub-assemblies within the pack. That's why the huge price difference.
 
I suppose the manufacturer of the battery knows exactly what is going on - probably the cell separator does not withstand and an internal short circuit occurs. He also knows why - strong low-temperature charging, overcharging and over-discharge are conducive to such damage. Like discharging too quickly. This is the weakness of this technology. They are probably looking for better separators, they are definitely testing cells with solid electrolyte, they are certainly refining the control software to better detect, take care of and disconnect damaged or nearby damaged elements of the battery. But we will have to wait for fully effective solutions in the next generations of EVs, and now each of us is a guinea pig of technological progress and the fight for oil discontinuation ;-) And it's usually for our own money! We can be proud of ourselves, can't we?
 
I have detected no changes since the software update. That said, I drive relatively little and rarely charge past 80%, so I'm not exactly pushing the limits of things.
 
Markku Heikkinen said:
@electriceddy do you know what is the difference between these two high voltage battery back, price is different. I think is the root causes known and solve the new replacement high voltage battery.
Click to expand...

I notice that replace HV battery by link is production Date: 04/2019- that is before I get my Kona 03/2019 and it is made about 2-3 month earlier, so my broken HV battery, it may be different than the new one that I wait to replace.
I think that because my goal is to drive my car about 400 000 km in 10 years and now driven about 73 000 km and the battery has a problem and have to replace. Nobody knew what is different new HV battery than earlier, only hope that the new one is a good product and made good materials.
 
So it sounds like Hyundai has just told you that there's a fix available, but hasn't clarified what's in it?
 
JohnEEngineer said:
Does LG Chem (a.k.a. LG Solutions) provide the same battery for the 2021 Kona EV that they provided for the 2019 and 2020 Kona EVs?
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Assuming it's similar in the Bolt, there was a 2020 chemistry update there which differentiated it from the previous cells. The 2020+ are not recalled for the Bolt, but I believe that's only because they're too new, and not because they're immune.
 
Telek said:
Assuming it's similar in the Bolt, there was a 2020 chemistry update there which differentiated it from the previous cells. The 2020+ are not recalled for the Bolt, but I believe that's only because they're too new, and not because they're immune.
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Although "not confirmed" Bolt cells were changed to higher density NCM 712 to known as the "cold weather battery pack" which allows 150% faster DC charging in colder weather. This resulting in slightly better energy density ( 143 to 158 Wh/kg):
https://pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/
 
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electriceddy said:
Although "not confirmed" Bolt cells were changed to higher density NCM 712 to known as the "cold weather battery pack" which allows 150% faster DC charging in colder weather. This resulting in slightly better energy density ( 143 to 158 Wh/kg):
https://pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/
Click to expand...

Eh, claimed 150% faster cold weather charging. Actual testing is much less than that.

If the Bolt was updated, wouldn't the Kona have been as well? Although the Bolt never used the E63 cells.
 
Telek said:
Eh, claimed 150% faster cold weather charging. Actual testing is much less than that.

If the Bolt was updated, wouldn't the Kona have been as well? Although the Bolt never used the E63 cells.
Click to expand...
Its really speculative, as the actual chemistries are ambiguously shared to my knowledge. LG in particular seems to keep that part very secretive.
 
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