Toyota pushing hard in PHEVs?

I suppose their reasoning is built on their current customer base.
Most of the prospective first time car buyers are in Asia, outside China - where electrification is incomplete.

Vast countries like the US, Canada and Australia will always have stretches of open highway with limited power connections.

While a PHEV is *the most* complex powerplant, Toyota's hybrid drive is a proven, robust drivetrain.

I would rather have a reliable intercity rail than more power plants, so this can be seen as complementary, not a direct competitor to EVs.
 
Toyota knows that most ICE owners are not ready to jump straight to a BEV. And the ongoing controversy with poor charging infrastructure is reinforcing their beliefs. But what will these 120 mile range PHEVs cost?
 
Jim Matthews said:
I would rather have a reliable intercity rail than more power plants, so this can be seen as complementary, not a direct competitor to EVs.
Click to expand...

Sure, but remember there are many gigawatts of rooftop space that's going sadly neglected for solar PV every day. I would like to see more of those power plants.
 
Toyota has maintained that putting smaller batteries in HEV’s and PHEV’s, rather than larger batteries in BEV’s, would be a more efficient method to reduce vehicular emissions. This decision has put the company in a dark place with many narrowly focused environmentalists.

Their chief scientist, Gill Pratt, has cited a finite lithium supply as one reason for the decision. The company has also stated a 40 mile EV range for PHEV’s as their ideal target. Recent mandates may up that to 50. Given their previous statements, it is odd that they would even propose, let alone develop, a PHEV with an EV range of 120 miles.

The company has also announced a more “efficient” battery in the near future, that they claim will double the range of current EV’s. I’d challenge the use of the word “efficient” when discussing an energy storage device. Increased battery “capacity” is what will be necessary to increase the EV range of otherwise identical vehicles that are driven in the same fashion.
 
Last edited:
R P said:
But what will these 120 mile range PHEVs cost?
Click to expand...

Excellent question. Using a Clarity as an example, it would require a 40kWh battery to achieve that range. That’s 23 additional kWh’s, with each kWh occupying roughly the same amount of space as the 12V battery and weighing about 20lbs. There goes the trunk, or the rear seating area, and we’ve added 460lbs. Now the battery cooling/heating system needs to be expanded, we’ll probably want to up the L2 charger to a 40A unit and with all this added weight, the 1.5l engine will need to be replaced with the 2.0l engine, and we’ll need a more powerful traction motor. Might need to throw in another 5kWh’s of battery capacity, since we’re looking at a 5000lb vehicle now, which will have to be built on a beefier chassis with a more robust suspension.

We’ve heard fantasy numbers of $100/kWh for lithium batteries in vehicles. I’d put that number in the Questionable category. If it were true, the battery alone would add $2300 to the car. Realistically, it is likely to add at least $10,000 to the price of a car and there’s little to no benefit in having a Clarity PHEV with a 40kWh battery.
 
petteyg359 said:
Sure, but remember there are many gigawatts of rooftop space that's going sadly neglected for solar PV every day. I would like to see more of those power plants.
Click to expand...
Interesting digression - that is a parallel "lift" for the electrification problem if rooftop panels reduce power demands.

It doesn't address remote charging problems.

"Engineering with Rosie" had a pithy video explainer on the problems facing large countries like Oz and much of Africa. Pertinent response @ 1:15:00

https://www.youtube.com/live/sRuvyogk2G0?feature=share
 
Jim Matthews said:
that is a parallel "lift" for the electrification problem if rooftop panels reduce power demands.

It doesn't address remote charging problems.
Click to expand...

Solar panels don’t reduce power demands, they have the potential to increase capacity in order to meet demands.

Paired Power offers a solar panel product that provides EV charging for remote and off-grid applications. IMG_2605.webpIMG_2606.webp
 
R P said:
Very interesting product. What does it cost? Has anyone got a quote?
Click to expand...
Electrek says:

Paired Power is taking orders for PairTree now, and the company is expecting general delivery to take place in the second quarter of 2023.

September 14 update: PairTree’s starting price is $26,900, and that covers the canopy and solar only (no charging or other electronics). Fully configured units will sell for mid-$60k depending on options.
 
R P said:
Very interesting product. What does it cost? Has anyone got a quote?
Click to expand...

Based on what is available for similarly sized off-grid kits, it would probably fall in the $20K-$40K range, if they were to sell it. That may seem expensive, however, compared to the cost of bringing electricity to a location that is 20-50 miles from the nearest source of electricity, it could be a bargain.
 
insightman said:
Electrek says:

Paired Power is taking orders for PairTree now, and the company is expecting general delivery to take place in the second quarter of 2023.

September 14 update: PairTree’s starting price is $26,900, and that covers the canopy and solar only (no charging or other electronics). Fully configured units will sell for mid-$60k depending on options.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That seems like a steep price. I wonder if the intent is to sell the system to someone who will charge customers for the electricity.
 
Ouch, very expensive indeed. I have an off-grid cabin that I am just now upgrading to have 3.1 kW solar power and have 20 kWh of battery storage. My total cost was about $6000 CAD. But it took a lot of scrounging to get those costs. The off-grid solar forums were invaluable.

I will be charging my new Solterra (off-road capable) at 1.9 kW there this summer. While we are at the cabin, our max daily consumption is about 2.4kWh so lots of excess charging power and storage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top